#exploded badger primary

[wisteria-lodge]

*slightly* exploded bird primary (badger-flavored system) (unhealthy badger primary model) + rapid-fire/actor bird secondary

Hi Wisteria! I’ve been loving your thoughtful and in-depth analyses and no one else in my life is familiar with the SHC system, so it’s been hard to get some outside perspective. English is not my first language, so please forgive my grammar/awkward phrasing at times. For my sorting, I am thinking Bird primary, though I’ve considered Lion and Badger primaries. I think I am not a snake primary. I have never felt there was an intrinsic moral hierarchy when it comes to people I care about. I still care for them, but at the end of the day, I think we are all living conscious beings who deserve equal treatment, rights, and consideration.

Definitely getting Idealist primary here (Bird or Lion, and I see why you're thinking Bird. Your whole position is well-thought out and well articulated.) I will say that 'all living conscious beings deserve equal treatment' is kind of the Badger mission statement,' but when we're in generalities that big, that thought could just as easily be coming from a Bird with some Badger in their System, a Paragon Lion, or even a really expansive Snake.

I also think prioritizing your own group is often dangerous.

This bit here could describe a Snake or a Badger equally well, depending on how we're defining the "group" we're talking about here.

A Loyalist would probably say that protecting the group is the only thing you know for sure you can do well, and when things get too big and Idealistic, they become unreal, hypothetical, and unsafe. But you seem perfectly fine with that level of big-picture stuff, so I'm happy to say Idealist for you. Also, there's an undercurrent of... suspicion, directed at Loyalists.

I guess I could be a snake that only includes themselves, as I do act in self-preservation a lot of the times

That's a human thing. If someone is *struggling* with turning on the self-preservation, that's a problem, and probably a sign of Burning, or a very immature Badger.

and struggle to trust people.

That can also come from a lot of different places.

I sometimes have an attitude of turning people bad in my head as soon as they act against me, or in a way that reveals their “true character”

Honestly, this kind of sounds like it could be a *Badger* thing?

Because Badgers have opt-out morality, they will often do this thing where you're one of their people, until you break the rules (or the social contract) badly enough. And then you're out, because you're a threat to the rest of the group.

(this is often a projection) and then tend to self-isolate.

Hmmm. And now you're back to being philosophical. Distancing yourself from the emotion of cutting people off. Much more Bird.

I thought bird primary because I do change my ideas about the world and morality quite often and refine my worldview as I discover new ideas. I am also very receptive to scientific ideas and do put logic and reasoned morality above intuition.

You also seem very chill about this whole process, which makes me say Bird again. (Not Lion. The process just tends to be a lot messier and a lot more emotional with Lions.)

However, my tendency to prioritize the perceptions of the group, my need to serve a larger purpose and my desire to be useful to society do feel quite badger-y.

They do. "Prioritize the perceptions of the group," especially is a very Badger thing to say. Badgers also like being useful to the group. But 'need to serve a larger purpose' is a big enough statement that it could work for almost anyone.

What Badger and Bird have in common is that they're both External primaries. What the world thinks is important, and you care about that in a way that Lions and Snakes just kind of don't.

As for lion, I do often act based on heuristics, especially if I haven’t thought out a specific issue yet.

Yeah, this isn't lion. For one thing - you used the word "heuristics." For another, you're stressing about the way you only rely on these "well xyz worked in past" mental shortcuts when you haven't "thought a thought out a specific issue yet." Implication being that, in a perfect world, you would have time to think it out completely every time. (Birds hate having to make snap decisions.)

I can also pretend to be more rational than I am, and tend to live life in automatic mode, by relying on assumptions and facts that sound good. I think I do this less than other people, but that is still a flaw I’ve noticed.

You rely on these "automatic" shortcuts less than other people, but think that you should use them less, and feel bad that you use them at all.

I wonder if you're a Bird primary living in a very Badger community. Or the flip, a Badger living with a bunch of Birds.

As for my secondary, I am a little bit lost. I am very much in my own head and not very action-oriented, so I feel like I lack the data to identify my secondary, or I am burned and just using whatever works. I usually just use stress to motivate action and procrastinate until the last minute.

Oh, the neurodivergent special. Save the non-preferred task for the last minute, and then use the adrenaline that generates to hack your brain into getting it done really fast. Definitely not the only person here doing that.

Childhood: As a kid, I was extremely quiet, sensitive, and introverted. From early on, I remember being very artistic and curious. I would dress up and improvise plays in front of my family. I also loved to draw, write poems, walk in nature, and learn about the world (I was especially fascinated with animals). I also loved to get lost in imaginary worlds, and I remember writing fantasy stories, and believing I had magical powers or was an alien/magical creature.

When I was in school, I remember not connecting very well with my peers. I think people could feel I was different. I was soft spoken, sensitive, and I excelled at school.

I mean so far, *I*could have written this. And I'll take it all into account, but this isn't a system for describing personality, so much as it is one for describing method/motivation.

I didn’t like sports like other boys, and it wasn’t acceptable to hang out with girls, so I just kept to myself. I was already doing good in school, so I just kind of developed that aspect of my identity. I didn’t get along with many other kids and ate lunch with my teachers a lot. I still had friends, but few of them were close.

You're describing constructing your identity in a very deliberate, conscious way, which is more Bird than Badger. It's honestly Bird secondary - like this how you get Actor Bird, deliberately developing one 'version' of yourself because it's useful in certain situation. I'm hearing you enjoyed acting and costumes, and (flash forward to present day) you "pretended" to be more rational than you are. I think you might be an Actor Bird.

It was validating to be so good at academics, and to get teachers’ and parents’ approval. Even if some other kids resented it, I didn’t care because it gave me worth.

This hits every child to some degree, but it hits External primaries very hard. This could describe a young Bird or a young Badger equally well, and now I'm wondering if any of these authority figures especially Birdy or especially Badgery?

Getting good grades, being the perfect child, being “mature for my age” were a big part of my personality.

"Perfect Child" is often an Actor Bird construction. "Mature for your age" is something I usually hear said about young Badgers. Are you maybe a Bird primary, with a very Badger-flavored System? It would fit everything I've read so far.

I also knew deep down I was queer

oh thats brutal

but I eventually became really good at self-editing, and I began to embody a version of me that was acceptable. I was the successful, responsible, smart kid, and I eventually started playing football in high school so that of course meant I was straight. I fully made myself believe the mask I was putting on at that time (badger-like?). In high school, I was tired of being an outsider, so I tried fitting in. I became much more agreeable, sociable, and started becoming more popular. Honestly, it felt good to be appreciated by my peers, and I did play into the character I was projecting. I was still hyper-focused on academics, but for the first time, people actually liked me.

Okay, so I do see why you're saying Badger. Badgers (especially young badgers) can just adopt the group's identity, and lose sight of their own individuality in the process. But I don't think that's what's going on here.

To me, this sounds like it could only be Actor Bird. I know English isn't your first language, so I'm not reading too too much into the word choice... but you do refer to this "Acceptable Self" as a "character," that you "embody." Building this "mask" was a deliberate, conscious process, and it sound like you lived in this persona for a while. Also, not ignoring the fact that... it worked. Wanting to be more popular, and then building a persona that is more popular... that's not something everyone can do.

This actually makes me think of a sorting I wrote for Blackbeard of Our Flag Means Death, and the Actor Bird-specific angst of building a character, spending a little too long in that skin and then feeling that people only like you/you only have worth because of a role you play... and then becoming trapped, because your character is too simple, and it's stifling.

I eventually came to accept my sexuality and had a friendship that made me confront the lack of authenticity of the mask I was putting on. After that, I explored my authentic self while still enjoying my newfound social skills and ability to attract people.

I love that. You built a "popular" persona, and then realized that you din't have to wear it all the time.

I also started getting interested in social justice, philosophy, and politics, which made me question a lot of preconceived notions and ideas I held true about the world.

Oh that's a very Bird primary list of interests right there.

As I became more informed, ethics and morality became a big corner stone of my interactions with the world. I was always interested in finding the “right” way to be, even as a child,

This almost seems like a version of the "book fantasy," which is something I've heard from several Bird primaries at this point: "When I was younger, I wished that there was a magic book that would tell me the 'right' way to act in every situation."

but this meant I could figure out what that meant in more objective terms, and for myself instead of what adults thought. Paradigm shifts were exciting (and still are).

I absolutely love that for you. Bravo.

Family dynamics:

In terms of family dynamics, I always went along to get along. I was checked out emotionally, especially since a lot of family members would say homophobic things, and I never felt completely comfortable with them. I stuck with easy topics and didn’t go into my personal life, and I was content with the image of the golden child they had of me. Even with my parents, whom I love, I never felt I could completely be myself. This led to a lot of secrets and lies to conceal my real self. I was never that rebellious or troublesome to begin with, and I kind of acted like a little adult.

Okay. That makes sense. Sounds like you built a pretty robust Badger primary model that was useful for keeping the peace with your family. (It also sounds just, incredibly necessary.) This explains why a lot of your descriptions of your younger self read as super Badger primary to me: "little adult" "mature for your age" "farming the approval of authority figure."

I also thought a lot of their views were outdated, although I rarely argued with them. My dad had the idea he had to be strict, which was just not the best fit for me. I learned to be extremely secretive, sneaky, and find ways around the rules. I was not very wild to begin with, but I did value my freedom. I just kind of passively agreed, and then did it behind their backs.

Sounds possible you might have a little bit of a snake secondary model?

Although my dad was very sensitive and affectionate, a thing that hurt me a lot was his inability to deal with others’ emotions. I was not allowed to express negative emotions or cry, and he justified this as him being “old school”.

Ah yes. As we know, boys should only have Cool emotions, like Anger and Science. Wondering if your *Dad* might be a Badger primary, with this focus on Tradition and Rules.

This was extremely frustrating to me, as I never understood how tradition could be a valuable reason for anything, or how sticking with old values and refusing to adapt was acceptable.

A little bit of that Bird primary 'make it make sense' thing.

My mom, though more accepting of my sensitivity, was also very critical. She used the status quo to judge what I did, which was also very frustrating. If something I did was weird or impolite, she would use a kind of circular reasoning (this is bad because it’s not socially acceptable, and it’s not socially acceptable because it’s bad), which was also confusing to me.

I love that you can now identify that as classic circular reasoning.

I just wasn’t super interested in developing a strong connection with anyone in my family. I just felt that it was all too arbitrary,

Definitely don't think you're a Loyalist, because I don't think a Loyalist could do a break this clean. There'd be some sense of something... some guilt, some emotion, some residual thing.

and I was more interested in exploring my friendships with people who understood me more deeply. I felt my parents’ (especially dad’s) rules didn’t make any sense, and I wanted my freedom as soon as possible. Since I moved out, our relationship has been a lot better, though I still hide aspects of my life from them.

Very true that just not needing to be around your family 24/27 makes things so much better and easier to deal with.

Problem solving: In terms of problem solving, I like to think I am strategic, and a good contingency planner. I generally understand things well, and how they work together, and am quick to find a solution. When thinking about solving a small problem, I will usually think of the “goal state” first (i.e., what is the ideal I am trying to achieve in this situation). Then I can break down what I need to do. This usually starts with evaluating resources at my disposal (i.e., time, space, material, or mental resources), and what is in the environment. Then, I can come to a solution implicitly by connecting the dots. Finally, I will mentally play out the situation and see if it works, or if there are any roadblocks. This all happens quickly though. Planning is fun, but so is throwing away the plan or finding a clever way to get out of the situation.

What a fantastic breakdown of how to solve a problem. It's also extremely Bird secondary. If it happens fast enough, and you're comfortable enough with it, it looks like it even gets into Rapid-Fire Bird territory (probably why I was getting a little Snake secondary energy up there, Rapid-fire birds can look extremely Snake.)

Am a little bit side-eyeing your decision to call yourself "not very action-oriented" up there. You seem perfectly comfortable with problem-solving to me.

Whenever the unexpected happen, the path becomes really obvious to me. Priorities become salient, and things that are useless fall to the side. It’s more in situations where I’m forced to make a controlled decision that I’m a nervous and indecisive wreck.

Bird primaries HATE making snap decisions.

I can get stressed out if there is missing information, or if the expectations aren’t clear. Travel is especially stressful because of the number of unexpected events that can affect the rest of the trip.

I mean, no one likes missing information or unclear expectations. But it really gets to Birds. (Both primary and secondary honestly. and I'm really thinking that you're a Double Bird.)

With all the information, even if it’s bad news, I can manage and find a solution. But my brain will keep spinning scenarios if I don’t know for sure. Even at school, uncertainty was always worse than bad news.

I hear this. It really goes back to that classic Bird primary fantasy: "but I want to know EVERYTHING"

Not knowing where I stand with someone, with a group, or with a supervisor also makes me nervous. I like knowing what they think of me and what people need from me so I can provide it (or not bother if they dislike me for no reason).

I do think that you have a Badger model, or a Badger flavor to your system. Honestly, you very likely have bOTH. You took in the parts of your parents worldview that made sense to you: it IS useful to know what people want from you, and to know that you aren't making any social faux pas (that way, if someone is acting weird at you, you know it doesn't have to do with you.) But you also have this much more performative Badger model: this is who my parents expect me to be, I don't agree with it, but I can put it on and let it run.

In terms of interpersonal problems, this is where I am most terrible. I am often an absolute doormat and will not vocalize problems and internalize everything. My issue is that I don’t feel confident that I am right and doubt my ability to argue my point and stand up for myself without absolutely ruining the relationship.

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm *surprised,* since you grew up in an environment where arguing was very frowned upon, and it's not like you can win an argument with someone depending on circular arguments and logical fallacies.

You also built a large part of your *identity* around this Perfect Child, Invisible Badger who just does not cause problems. In the language of this system, you built a very intense Badger primary model as a coping mechanism, and now it's run out it's usefulness... but is still hard to punch through, because old models get sticky.

If something bothers me, I will mull over it and eventually let it go because it becomes too late.

Okay, *this* is why you thought there might be some Burning going on. There's this aspect of the way you relate to people that just feels very unsafe, and so you... shut it down.

I think the problems here are uncertainty, and lack of control. When I am in a situation where I know all the elements, have resources, and plenty of time, I am good.

That is absolutely Textbook Double Bird. But (as I'm sure I don't have to tell you)... it's also a fantasy. Very often, you will be lacking in either resources, info, or time. This is why a lot of Double Birds build models, or look like Lion secondaries whenever they don't have time to prep.

If there is an unknown, I can’t do anything.

In the language of this system, that's a Bird primary that's Exploded a little bit, this idea that you can't possibly act if you don't have all the information. It's very Chidi from The Good Place.

In social situations, I can’t control the volatility of relationships or other people, so I just control my reaction.

Pretty much all you can control, so good.

Often, instead of doing something when something is bothering me, I will basically force a paradigm shift to see the situation in a better light, and then move on.

Bird primaries are known for the superpower of just being able to *decide* to like something, or *decide* to be interested in something. That is absolutely what you're doing here. It's *a* way to solve that problem, I guess. But it doesn't seem to make you feel free/powerful.

I kind of have an addiction with the process of solving, and an intolerance for doubt. When I was questioning my career choices, I would reflect on all aspects of my personality, of my goals for the future, I would take endless career quizzes, read the descriptions of jobs over and over, would ask my friends what they thought I should do, etc. I would run in circles, never deciding. I even started deconstructing the philosophy of work, to determine if it was even possible to make a good decision.

Very Bird. Very *exploded* Bird. Of course you went from "what job do I want" to "is the concept of work philosophically moral."

Other questions: My future plans is to live a relatively quiet life out of the public eye, surrounded by books, and having plenty of free time to research or practice my hobbies. I want a stable job, with money so I don’t have to think about those things, and I want to be intellectually stimulated and to be able to add value to the world in the best way I can. I want two dogs, a partner who is fine with my need for space. I also want to live in a walkable city that has an interest in art and culture, and access to nature.

That sounds lovely.

Mostly, I want to be satisfied that I am a good person and be able to do what I want with relative freedom. Now, to be honest, I am very unsatisfied about the real world. It seems so monotonous, and I have always had the secret desire to escape into a fantasy realm. Unfortunately for myself, I don’t believe in the supernatural.

It gets better. There are a lot of cool things out there, and it all gets much less linear once you leave school. I would probably say though - knowing you and your tendencies - maybe a little less focus on being a good person (because that's a can of worms) and maybe a little more on doing things that are a net positive to the world around you.

I feel most powerful when I surprise myself. I once prepared for a grad school interview by reading hundreds of questions and preparing answers for them. When I practiced with a friend, it just came out forced and clunky, and I found myself trying to repeat exactly what I had written. I had accepted I just wasn’t going to get in. When I went to the actual interview though, I just went off script and took risks. I told personal anecdotes while maintaining the image I wanted to project to them, which got me an offer.

You are absolutely a Rapid-Fire bird, which is very cool.

When I speak up in class, when I stand up for myself, when I make impulsive decisions, and especially when I do something scary, I also feel this way.

I like it. Lean into that Lion secondary energy. I know a lot of Birds, especially Double Birds, find it extremely helpful.

I also feel powerful when I feel competent. For instance, when I fix issues at work, when I get good grades, when I manage to problem solve in a clever way.

All of this is very Bird secondary. And honestly, a very effective-sounding Bird secondary.

In high school and during the pandemic, I also was obsessed with personality systems and would read and introspect for hours trying to determine my type. But there was never an answer satisfying enough because the process of introspection was the addictive part of it, and even a sliver of doubt would send me into another rabbit hole. There is a kind of poking at it until it becomes mush effect. I literally made excel sheets with my results on different quizzes, over multiple weeks, to see if there was a pattern. By focusing so much on figuring out who I am, and the intricacies of my own psyche, I just end up losing the big picture and not being able to contextualize the information I’ve gathered. Sometimes it even becomes hard to identify anything since I’m focusing on such a tiny part of myself, and the human mind is so kaleidoscopic and changing, so it stops making sense and just becomes a big blob of behaviors and thoughts. I’ve had a hard time figuring out my MBTI and enneagram because of this as well.

I have been there before, trying to navigate the difference between what is useful introspection and what is navel-gazing indulgence. I accept that people are incredibly complicated, and any categorization system is inherently imperfect. I also accept that words to describe your inner workings are extremely helpful, and honestly, necessary. One thing I like about the system is the cleanness of it. So much of it has to do with cutting through the noise and the *presentation* we are presented, and just going - okay, how do we work, why do we work?

Thank you to Lorangutan for such an excellent submission. If you'd like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

If you'd like to read more about the system I'm using, my explanation is right here.

[liltalle]

Sorting A Practical Guide to Evil - Sorting Hat Chats

This web serial is one of my favorite stories of all time, and it's all about differing perspectives on morality and the effectiveness of different methods—perfect for SHC. (The premise is a girl of the heroic mold joining up under the Dread Empire to help her people when all the attempted heroes have failed—reminiscent of Baru Cormorant if anyone's read that.)

I've had sorting notes in my back pocket for years, and it's high time I put them out into the world. I don't know how many people here are still into it, it's still live if anyone wants to try it, but there will be spoilers below. The basics of the sorting system are explained here, archetypes reference found here.

Catherine Foundling - Badger Lion. The Dark Protagonist sorting, I love it. Cat is very clear that her loyalty is to Callow, and a core theme of the story could be described as the lengths Loyalists are willing to go for what's theirs, how they shed Idealist restraints, and how they discover that sometimes playing nice is actually the practical way to get what they want. Cat is contrasted early on with William, who at least performs Lion, with his naive idealism about the ideal of Callow, the King, the banners, "freedom". Cat insists that it's about the people and their well-being, under whatever flag. She is attached to Callowan culture, grudges and so forth, "she is Callowan, in the end", and those ideas drive her decisions, even as she breaks with some of them. It's a source of conflict and sadness for her, that she's gone against her people to help them, that they hate her, that she can't last as Queen. Her Primary becomes more open as she goes on: she comes to see Praesi as more diverse and human, she adopts the Fifteenth and its varied peoples until she becomes a banner for all oppressed people's under the Praesi, and her aegis eventually extends over all of Calernia when it's clear that the only way to solve her problems. But her heart never seems to leave Callow. She regrets sacrificing personal loyalties for what she needs to do, but she always does it. And the recklessness and ruthlessness of her Lion Secondary is legendary in-story. Everything explodes around her, she sacrifices her own life as an opening gambit, her power depends on an unbroken string of victories, she's a Thresher (as the Pilgrim describes her) driving deep loyalties and animosities. She picks up a Bird Secondary model from Black as the story progresses, learning to stand back and scheme from a distance rather than risking herself, and it reaches brilliant heights at the Prince's Graveyard, she relished the planning and stayed steps ahead of everyone else, but she's a brawler at heart.

Amadeus of the Green Stretch - Badger Bird. The King / Mob Boss archetype is on point. An inveterate schemer, de-facto king of Callow, always has another sword or sharper in his shadow. Maddie tries to convince Cat that he's on the side of Evil spitting in the eye of the Heavens, but as @lilietsblog argues eloquently here, his true loyalty is to Praes. He raises the idea of Evil as a group for Cat to put them on the same side, and engage that Lion Sec defiance, avoiding the clear fact that their loyalties are to Praes and Callow, and those are likely to clash at some point. He hates much about Praes, but Alaya correctly points out to him that he can't butcher his way into being born in a different homeland. Everything he does is to break the cycle that's devastated his homeland (and Cat's, but that's not his problem) since its foundation. Watching Nefarious' rout and learning about the grain problem are formative experiences for his path. His break with Alaya is a clear split between their different Loyalties: he's loyal to what Praes could be, needs to be, and is willing to break it to make that happen, while Alaya is a Snake in need of control, and she's content to play the game if that's what she needs to do, reform is a nice idea to her but it's not a moral imperative. Amadeus dies for it.

Akua Sahelian - Double Snake (Double Bird model). - Akua thinks she's a Double Bird early on, with all her speeches on "iron sharpens iron" and the glory days of Evil, her elaborate brilliant schemes and devices. But it's not where she truly shines. She becomes something different after Catherine beats her on the terms of her philosophy and shatters her plans. She's a spirit bound to a cape and she... works with it. She's endlessly subtle and seductive, she plays the Woe off each other and inserts herself into the group with alarming ease. She loves flirting with Catherine, she prides herself on her resilience - a Snake Secondary. As for the Primary... oh, poor Akua. She was deliberately Burned young, when her mother ordered her to kill her only friend by her own hand. Akua remains attached, amazingly, to her father, and a little to Barika, though she doesn't want to admit that one. Her father's death is one of the times we see her truly wounded. When Catherine beats her, her philosophy says that she belongs to her now, but that bond becomes something else. The easy companionship of the Woe, that Akua's so deftly maneuvering into, makes her feral. She describes being invited to a fireside feast with Cat's friends as maybe the cruelest thing ever done to her. Because there's nothing in the world she wants so much as love like that. Catherine herself becomes Akua's focus, someone she wounded beyond all forgiveness becoming the only person she wants... (God, this story. My unBurning Snake Primary bleeds with hers.)

Hakram Deadhand - Double Badger. We have a Evil Peacemaker too, it's so good. Hakram is Burnt at the beginning, not because of trauma, but because nothing's really inspired him until Cat. Her project brings him to life, and he loves it... until his people need him. It's a terrible decision, but in the end, the orcs are his in a way Callow is not. (These conflicting Badger loyalties between people who love each other do make my Snake sad.) And he, along with Scribe, is one of the most brilliant Badger Secondaries I've ever seen. He has magical paperwork-speed abilities, he doesn't sleep, he maintains vast networks, he's explicitly the power behind the throne. And when pushed to a crisis with Vivienne, what does he does but sacrifice himself, embodying the solution, trading a piece of himself for her trust. He's kind and scary and thorough, I love it.

Indrani - Double Snake. Girl's a pretty easy sort. She cares about her hedonism and her freedom and her friends. She's a flirt, she talks a lot but carefully doesn't reveal much. She's the one to tell Cat how deeply the personal loyalty she's offered means to the Woe. She singed under Hye's harsh treatment, put that cruelty onto her fellows, but with Cat's kindness, she unBurns that part of her Primary, reconciling with Cocky.

Masego - Double Bird. Another on-the-nose stereotype, our magnificent autistic boy. He's got a speech about his world collapsing before his eyes was a formative experience for his effort to understand the nature of reality. He's frank that apotheosis is a higher priority for him than his friends, but he does work them into his system a little. He invents a new theory of magic. He's unsettled by Cat's recklessness, he's tempted by knowledge, he's a magpie when it comes to arcane tools... I want to talk about him more because I love him, but I think this one's solid (it could be the standard autistic Bird Secondary model, but he seems very comfortable with it, so, Occam's Razor, it's his base).

Vivienne Dartwick - Lion Snake. I have a less of a read on Vivienne's internals, but this one makes the most obvious sense. Her loyalty shift is different than Catherine's, and I think it's suggestive how Cat leans on Viv as a moral compass when she doesn't trust herself. While I don't remember the details of why she joined the Woe, Hakram convincing her to stay I think points strongly to Lion. She doubts herself and her worth, and it throws her into a spiral, until she knows, by Hakram's brutal in-her-face sacrifice, that she's trusted and needed. And then she lights up again. Her Secondary... she's literally doing the Robin Hood thing, she fits the archetype. She doesn't build her network quite like Hakram, she doesn't seem Built at all, she's quick on her feet, but not great in a direct fight.

Alaya of Satus - Double Snake. Alaya's formative moment was when her father was nailed to the floor of her inn by the Sentinels. She was powerless to protect someone she loved, and then she was kidnapped into one of the most dangerous environments on Calernia. Her Primary got a little Exploded wrt her need for control, she sharpened her Secondary to terrifying subtlety, and she became Empress. As I said above, her break with Maddie about her need for control ("Praes is a game that can be won") vs. his moral drive for reform ("Praes is a mold that can be broken").

Scribe - Snake Badger. - Scribe's function is to serve Amadeus (even without his knowledge), and her abilities are the apotheosis of a Badger Secondary - unobtrusive, insanely fast at paperwork, can maintain a cross-continental spy network from a tent. (I'm so jealous.)

Sabah - Snake Lion. - Sabah fights with the Calamities because they're her friends, and is happy to go home to her husband when they don't need her. She's slightly sad about the heroes she has to kill, but if they're in her way, she doesn't regret it at all. Her hammer, and the directness of the Beast? Very Lion Secondary. She gains power on her vision quest when she just... asserts loyalty to the Calamities and fucking kills the god.

Wekesa - Snake Bird. Another Occam's sorting. Wekesa blatantly cares about his husband and son, his friends, and his fun research. He refuses to run a mage academy for Amadeus' project because it would be annoying. His specialization in wards and creative use of that is one of his edges. And it does fit the archtype.

Hye Su - Lion Bird. I'm a little baffled by Hye, but this one might work. Her need for freedom points to an Internal Primary, and she doesn't attach to people really. She dedicated to herself growing stronger, doing ridiculous things like visiting Keter to see one of the few people who can still challenge her. She fights the Queen of Summer, because (and is vicious about her dignity, she doesn't kill them for annoying her because Amadeus would be bothered, but it's a very shallow Snake model). And the Secondary, I'm going off of vibes: the impulse to perfection, to turn herself into the weapon, the hard work, resonates with my Badger Secondary, but she doesn't network at all, and it feels more like a Rapid-Fire Bird, learning new tricks for Keter's traps every time, but internalizing everything so she'll be ready for anything. Her tools, her Aspects, are meta, they're about learning, and they're very dangerous, but I think it's a superficial similarity to a Badger's become-the-tool method.

William of Greenbury - Burnt Snake, Lion. I'm taking the more interesting choice here. William is tormented by a choice he feels he can never be forgiven for: butchering his sister to save himself. While any Primary is likely to find this horrific, a Snake would find it the most pointedly devastating. And running with this theory, we find William trying to model a Lion Primary by running to Contrition. I think a True Lion would hate himself a little less, would see a righteous cause as meaning something in atonement. William feels that the debt can never be paid down. That Burning's in his Name, he's the Lone Swordsman, he doesn't connect with anyone anymore. And the Lion Secondary seems straightforward. While he's not the best inspirational leader, he mirrors Cat in ruthlessness and blowing stuff up and self-sacrifice.

Cordelia Hasenbach - Double Badger. Another of the many nationalist Badger Primaries in this cast, Cordelia is loyal to Procer. She only seeks to rule it when it's clear no one else can save it from itself, she works herself into the ground, crosses lines with superweapons, all for her love of her country. And her power is in her mastery of etiquette, that thing the Lycaonese usually scorn, Southerners don't expect it of her, but she triumphs in the Highest Assembly in her darkest hours via mastery of the rules even in the midst of a coup. I can feel her Secondary's delight at winning within the system despite the chaos around her. And she refuses to cheat by taking a Name, she's no better than anyone else, they're all citizens of Procer and no one is above the law. She's only tempted by one when she seems to need one for her people to be safe.

Hanno of Arwad - Double Lion. I'm a little confused about Hanno, but the coin is definitely about a Burnt Idealist leaning on something external to himself, which he then loses, so he has to learn to trust himself again. And he feels more like a Burnt Lion using the Seraphim as an infallible external system (imitating Bird). Secondary-wise, he's offended by the suggestion of deception. In the trial of the Red Axe, he expects his heroes to be good, fights Christophe to the ground when he has to, but refuses further action, he feels betrayed when Cat and Cordelia come up with a clever solution around him.

Juniper - Lion Bird. Juniper's in love with war, the challenge. Not because it's an orc thing, she avoided her responsibilities to draw battles in the dirt, but because she wants it. Glory is motivating to her, she wants to fight battles like no one's ever seen, she revels in it. And her methods are very explicitly Birdy: she likes a versatile toolbox, and she's the best at using it. Only a Built Secondary could plan out a battle, see the crossbow she has pointed at the enemy in her mind's eye... and go to sleep, confident that her forces will win without her.

Robber - Double Snake. The beautiful little gremlin. He wants to be free of the Grey Eyries, he delights in mayhem, bloodshed, and pranks, he's loyal to Cat personally and gives no shits about the rules (to Juniper's exasperation)... love him.

Pickler - Double Bird. A simple guess: she loves engineering... and that's kind of her whole thing, she wants to make cool new ballistae, Robber and Nauk's attentions are nice but they're not her focus...

Kairos Theosodian - Bird Snake. In the Artist archetype with the Joker, he's got a philosophy about why he's truly Evil, and delights in chaos and betraying everyone around him and using that chaos as a ladder until he goes out in glorious making-a-point.

Phew, that was so many characters (I could add Grey Pilgrim, Saint of Swords... but it's long enough for now). I haven't brushed up on the books in a while, let me know if I got any details wrong.

This book has much to say about morality and problem-solving that I feel I should have more meta relating it to SHC, maybe I'll work it out another day, it'd be very fun, but I've wanted to post this for actual years, so... here it is!

[arizonaraine]

Sorting Hat Chats: Gladiator

I. Freaking. Love. This. Movie. Is it historically accurate? Not especially. Is the story fairly simple? Yes, but there's a difference between a SIMPLE story and a SIMPLISTIC one. The performances are top notch, the music, the costumes... *chef's kiss.*

So, without further ado...

Maximus is a Badger primary. He recognizes the humanity in the Germanic tribes-- "would you (know you're beaten), Quintus? Would I?" He's a great general, but his heart is at home with his family. After the first battle, he spends time among the wounded and is upset when it is suggested that they "died for nothing." He's deeply loyal to the memory Marcus Aurelius. Wherever Maximus goes, he collects people (Juba, Proximo, the German, Lucius) by being kind when he doesn't necessarily need to be. He inspires loyalty and goodness in others just by being who he is.

In true protagonist style, Maximus is a Lion secondary. There's no pretending with him-- if Maximus feels something is wrong, he won't do it. "With all my heart, no," he says to Marcus Aurelius when he initially refusing to become protector of Rome-- it's a gut reaction. He will not salute Commodus; he turns his back on him. Though he shows some Bird-like strategizing in battle, to me, it reads as an intuitive grasp of going on-- the art of reacting to things rather than planning for them. Even his habit of feeling the earth before going into battle screams Lion: it's a tactile, grounding, in-the-moment exercise.

Lucilla is a Snake primary. She cares about Rome, she cares about her father's memory, she cares about Maximus-- but at the end of the day, she will prioritize her son's safety ahead of everyone and everything else. (Side note: I think that Ridley Scott writes Snake women a lot-- Lucilla and Sybilla from Kingdom of Heaven are pretty much the same character). There's room to argue for more depth here, but I feel that her primary is pretty straightforward.

I read Lucilla as a Bird secondary. She's strategic where Maximus is not. She makes practical decisions, lays plans, and collects information behind the scenes. She also seems to use a bit of a Snake secondary model-- or maybe it's her Bird secondary in an "Actor Bird" form. She knows how to play Commodus, and tries something similar with Maximus-- a little flirty, a little coy-- and drops it the minute she sees it's not working with him.

Commodus is also a Snake primary, but an Exploded one. His whole worldview and perception of himself is wrapped up in a handful of people. He's desperate for his father's approval, even after he kills him (there's a scene in the director's cut with Commodus destroying a bust of Marcus Aurelius, then hugging/clinging to the ruins). All Commodus wants to be loved by his father, his sister, and the people of Rome. With the latter, he compares himself to a father and the people to children. He wants to give them the love he feels he was denied. But his idea of love is destructive to his wellbeing and the wellbeing of those around him. In the end, it gets him killed in the arena-- defeated by his own need for the crowd's approval.

Commodus is a Lion secondary with absolutely no impulse control. His father rejects him? Kill him. Maximus defies him? Try to kill him. His one strategic success comes when he accepts the counsel of a senator to "let (his enemies) come... and nibble." Challenging Maximus-- a GENERAL with YEARS OF EXPERIENCE-- to fight him in the arena is a terrible idea, but Commodus does it anyway.

Marcus Aurelius doesn't get as much screen time as I wish he did (RIP, Richard Harris). He's our lone Bird primary. He's THE Philosopher. He has carefully constructed his worldview, weighed his options, and decided on a course of action. He believes that Commodus is "not a moral man" because he lacks the virtues that Marcus Aurelius values: wisdom, justice, fortitude, and temperance. His choice to make Maximus the protector of Rome is careful and deliberate-- he's observed Maximus in many situations and knows that he does not desire power. That's why it must be Maximus. It's perfectly logical to him, and he believes that he can explain it to any reasonable person (unfortunately, Commodus is far from reasonable). Marcus Aurelius forever puts first the idea of Rome: it is his bright, shining TRUTH.

He's also a Bird secondary: the man writes like nobody's business. He's a deep thinker, a strategist, a collector of maps and other odds and ends to put in his toolkit.

I read Proximo as a Glory Hound Lion. He was once a gladiator himself, and you can feel it in his speeches about the crowd: even though he knows that fame is a fickle mistress, he loves the adulation, the money, being a star. He misses it. He believes that he and his men belong in the Colosseum. Before they go in to fight, he fills them up with his vision of glory.

I think that he's a Snake secondary. He can be charming, he can be adaptable. He plays people off each other to get the best price. He was "the best" in the arena because he "won the crowd." But he knows how and when to cut his loses and go blunt. He describes himself as "an entertainer."

Bonus! I see Juba as a Double Badger. He tends to Maximus's wound even before they become friends. He relies on memories of his people and traditions when things are at their bleakest. He offers encouragement in his own quiet, wise way. Some of the best lines in the movie are his, IMO: "I will see you again. But not yet. Not yet," and "you have a great name. He must kill your name before he kills you."

TL;DR:

Maximus: Badger Primary, Lion Secondary ("The Protagonist")

Lucilla: Snake Primary, Bird Secondary, possible Snake secondary model ("The Villain/the Mastermind")

Commodus: Snake Primary, Lion Secondary ("The Lancelot")

Marcus Aurelius: Bird Primary, Bird Secondary ("The Scientist")

Proximo: Lion Primary, Snake Secondary ("The Robin Hood")

Juba: Badger Primary, Badger Secondary ("The Peacemaker")

(archetype titles ala @wisteria-lodge:))

[reading-sometimes]

Equestria Girls SHC Sorting

This is part 1 of a 4-part series, since I'll be going through all of the movies. There's already a My Little Pony sorting that you can check out here. I agree with most of them, so I'll be focusing on characters that weren't covered or are exclusive to Equestria Girls, like Sunset, Sci-Twi, and Spike. A basic explanation of the system that I'm using by @wisteria-lodge is here.

Sunset: Badger Lion

Sunset starts off the movies as a villain, with a Glory Hound Lion primary model and a Bird secondary model. Sunset's obviously jealous of Twilight, because they're foils - they were both students of Princess Celestia. Sunset wanted power (her Glory Hound Lion primary) and became evil, while Twilight became a Princess, something that Sunset wanted all along.

Sunset also has a Bird secondary model, but she's really bad at using it until later in the series. She tries to make plans, but she's too impulsive to have foresight. Her Bird secondary is used to concoct plans like secretly taking photos of Twilight to show how she'd be a bad Fall Formal Princess, and editing photos to make it look like Twilight trashed the gym. Her plans are pretty bad, since she left the real photos on top of a trash can. Sunset's Lion secondary is pretty obvious - she throws the crown that she stole from Twilight through the portal.

Sunset's Badger primary is burned in the first movie - she bullies everyone around her so that she can be powerful. She dehumanizes everyone, and she says that she doesn't know anything about friendship. She uses her understanding of social situations to tear groups of friends apart. Hints of her Badger primary are visible, even when she's a villain. She says that she rules the school because she knows how to fit in. She didn't do anything to hurt her ex-boyfriend after she broke up with him, even though everyone expected her to (She says in the second movie that she never liked Flash. She was just using him to be more popular, but it's still nice that she didn't do anything to hurt him). She refuses to hurt Spike, and says that she's not a monster (which is ironic, since she turns into a demon in the next scene).

She wants to be a Princess more for acceptance than power, even though she doesn't realize that until she unburns. She only starts getting mad at Twilight when everyone starts praising her. When Sunset's a Princess, she focuses on how everyone will be loyal to her.

Twilight: Double Bird

Twilight has a Badger primary model that explodes as the movies go on. Twilight, just by existing, brings her group of friends together. She constantly talks about groups, primarily her group of friends. She doesn't understand why everyone in high school is divided into cliques, instead of everyone working together. She refuses to go back to Equestria, where all of her true friends are, if it means that the human world will be destroyed. The human world needs her more, so she's okay with staying there forever if it means that she can keep it safe. When Sunset starts crying, Twilight immediately forgives her.

Twilight's Bird secondary is endearingly obvious - the first thing that she does when she's transported to a new world is gather information about it. She finds a library so that she can research.

Spike: Snake Badger

Spike ran into the portal after Twilight, even though Princess Celestia forbade him from going with her. Everything that Spike does is for Twilight. Spike’s Snake primary is pretty obvious when he tells Twilight to ignore the versions of her friends in the alternate universe, because they aren't Twilight's real friends.

His Badger secondary is something that he uses all the time, mostly to talk Twilight out of anxious spirals. He's definitely more of a Courier Badger than a Bookkeeper Badger, even though he shows elements of both.

[alix-in-july]

Sorting Gohan from DBZ

I actually do want to talk about Gohan's sorting. For most of Dragonball Z, it really does seem like he's a double Lion because we mainly see him in moments of world-ending crisis. He gets thrown into a battle situation and he usually flounders or is mediocre compared to the other Saiyans until he gets triggered and just explodes at the bad guy. It all looks very Lion secondary on the surface. BUT then at the beginning of the Buu saga, we finally see Gohan during peacetime. And what is he doing? He's becoming a masked vigilante (Actor Bird) and planning out choreography and catchphrases. He's flying to see Bulma to consult with her about things (I know a Guy). When he's caught by surprise, he stammers and has no idea what to do. Contrast that with Chibi Trunks, who is able to just roll with it when he's almost caught pretending to be Mighty Mask. Also, when it's time to fight Cell, Goku purposefully goes first because he knows Gohan needs to study Cell's fighting technique in order to succeed.

He is a Lion primary like his dad, but he's more of a Paragon Lion whereas Goku is somewhat of a Paragon but sometimes just wants to fight for fighting's sake even when it's not the best idea. Like when Bulma suggests killing the Androids and Goku and Vegeta hate that idea because "we need to test our strength!" Gohan does not enjoy fighting for its own sake and sees it as a means to save people. He's not a Snake because he will put himself in danger to save strangers. He doesn't identify with the group (is anyone a Badger primary in this show??). And his morality doesn't function the way a Bird primary's would.

[seanicornspoice]

SHC: TOILET-BOUND HANAKO-KUN

While waiting for the new ch, I decided to finish this!

Disclaimer: This is purely from the manga, as I have yet to start the anime, and contains spoilers up to Ch.121.

HANAKO/YUGI AMANE: BADGER BADGER

The titular character!

At a glance, he comes off as a Snake primary, acting clingy towards Nene and trying to establish her as 'his'. However, I would say he's modelling his twin brother, Tsukasa ( a very LOUD and clingy Snake).

In truth, Hanako is a Burnt AND Exploded Badger. He kicks himself out of his own community after murdering Tsukasa. In the beginning, he mocks both Nene and Kou on different occasions for easily befriending a 'murderer', trying to scare them into leaving him as he considers himself irredeemable/a threat to others. The whole reason he became a School Mystery is to atone for his sins.

He has also designated Nene as the one most in need in his community, due to her impending death, and clings to saving her as his one purpose, becoming EXTREMELY ruthless in the process. Because a damned murderer like him can only be helpful to his community, to someone in need as a weapon, much like the kitchen knife he carries around: a symbol of home & care turned monstrous.

He's also Exploded! Even before dying, he is an Invisible Badger, boiling himself down to essentially Tsukasa's brother and stifling other parts of him to cater to his brother, such as his love for astronomy and his dream to reach the moon as an astronaut. This scene in the manga in particular:

I think bc, out of guilt among other things, Amane believes he doesn't deserve an identity out of serving his community.

After assuming the position of School Mystery No. 7 (aka the eponymous Toilet-Bound Hanako), he discards his old name and fully assimilates himself into his role, the representative/'face' for all supernaturals. Discovering his past and his identity/life beyond both how he serves Tsukasa and beyond the role of No. 7 is a Big part of his arc

He is definitely a Prepwork Secondary. His plans tend to be very very intricate with layers, and he's usually foiled by Improvisational secondaries acting in unexpected ways (looking at you Nene and Kou).

I considered Bird secondary at first, but the thing about Hanako is that he relies on one of two things to get stuff done: people or hard work.

As Yugi Amane, he is the one responsible for Tsukasa. During the flashback to their past as living teens, Amane is shown to be putting his nose to the grindstone trying to repair the broken clocktower, going as far as to skip his own school festival.

As Hanako, he prefers the Courtier Badger approach, always friendly, helpful and warm (so much so that you forget he's technically an evil spirit). But when he wants people to be afraid him, he's terrifying, and the switch is so seamless it doesn't feel like there's a mask, it's always just 'Hanako'.

That's why it's usually surprising to find out when he's lied, because he typically comes off as such a genuine person.

YASHIRO NENE - LION LION

Our protagonist!

Oh Nene, dear Nene. She starts off as an immature Lion, chasing after her ideals of love and trying to stave off the pain of being rejected by her first crush by throwing herself into a new, shinier, 'better' love.

Nene also has a Badger secondary model she created to catch the eye of her first love; learning to cook, sew and garden in an attempt to seem more like his type, feminine and homely.

However, when push comes to shove, her secondary comes ROARING out.

Nene does not walk, she CHARGES headfirst into a lot of things. And if she doesn't, she usually falls into it, that girl is a magnet for trouble. She has difficulty deceiving others and is at her best when she is her most authentic self, being able to move people and mountains with her genuinely kind attitude.

The easiest example is this scene in the 1st chapter:

After Hanako's more Badger-y suggestions fail (giving 2nd love her homegrown vegetables as a secret gift, making an intricate themed lunchbox, sewing back a loose button), she simply goes ahead and swallows the mermaid scales, charging headfirst w/o considering the consequences.

This is seen later on as well when she discovers her impending death, and she gets a say in what she wants to do and what happens next.

The refreshing thing about TBHK is that Nene is allowed a lot of agency. While she is kept in the dark at times and often pulled into trouble, it's just as often that she gets into trouble due to her own choices, and she does get to learn hard truths + decide for herself what that means.

As a result, over the course of the story, both her Primary & Secondary primary mature a lot. She develops a more nuanced worldview, and learns to temper her Secondary better so she can utilise it at its fullest potential at the right moment.

At this point, Nene is at her best when she is simply herself, helping the people around her move forward by holding onto what she believes is true, and being genuinely straightforward and compassionate to those around her.

It's also why Nene and Hanako balance each other out so well. He tempers her, and gives her a place to land when the most direct route turns out to have disastrous consequences, being the person she can always rely on to save her.

For Hanako, not only does Nene challenge a lot of his coping mechanisms and self-destructive tendencies, she also provides him a space to unBurn and carve out his own identity through her kindness and compassion, insisting on seeing him as his own person, rather than as any of the labels he defines himself as.

MINAMOTO KOU: BIRD LION

The youngest of the main trio, a Bird Lion!

His system is initially very black-and-white, built on his older brother's Badger worldview (humans vs Supernaturals). When we're first introduced to him, he's gungho about exorcising Hanako (evil by default due to being a Supernatural), proud of his duty and heritage.

I considered Lion as well, but the thing is Kou changes his worldview/opinions without much fuss. Nene has chapters or arcs where she gets messy, and has to acknowledge her painful emotions to change her beliefs.

When Kou calls into question about one of his core principles (Supernaturals vs humans), it's very Bird-like. He has a thought ('are there only bad Supernaturals?') and keeps building up on it to prove his hypothesis. Rather than look inward for answers, his main method is to observe Hanako to determine whether this belief is true or not.

When Hanako proves to be trustworthy & helpful, Kou goes 'There is such a thing as a good Supernatural!' and just changes his mind from fixating on exorcising Hanako to wanting peaceful co-existence. This immediately extends to all other Supernaturals as well, particularly his relationship with Mitsuba.

Kou brings balance to the main trio through genuine curiosity and a desire to understand, asking questions to expand his worldview further.

Being part of both an exorcist clan and close friends with Supernaturals, completely opposite and opposing groups, might be difficult at times but it proves healthy for him, as he's able to get multiple viewpoints/information and develop a more nuanced system for himself.

MINAMOTO TERU: BADGER BIRD

I considered Snake primary for him, since he prioritises his siblings above all else, but that's just human. He loves them to pieces and coming home to them is a big part of what keeps him going, of course he wants to make sure they're safe and happy.

I'm calling him as another Badger. His refusal to see any Supernatural as nothing but the worst (there's no such as a 'good Supernatural') speaks of dehumanisation, and he immediately views Hanako as an enemy no matter what good Hanako does. This page in particular solidified my choice of Badger for him.

It's also very telling that he labels Hanako as a murderer/monster the same way Hanako, another Badger, labels himself.

He has a bit of an Authoritarian streak to him, trying to force his prejudice against Supernaturals on Kou, and coming down hard at times when Kou goes against him in the name of keeping their family safe.

For his secondary, that's a Bird! He has his main persona, Student Council President Minamoto, the flawless pinnacle of the student body and the most popular guy in school. When he wants a break from the mask, it's not very dramatic for him, and just seems like the difference between wearing a uniform or casual clothes.

He also tends to plan and scheme, very obviously frustrated when things don't pan out (such as when his plans to negotiate with a shrine fall through). It takes him a little time to get back on his feet after a setback, but when he does, it's very effective.

AOI AKANE: SNAKE BADGER

For someone so defined by his devotion and love, it's appropriate that he's sorted as 'the Lover'.

Akane has one person who has always been His, no matter what, and that is his childhood friend, Akane Aoi (yes, the confusing names are intentional and part of their dynamic). While he is typically nice and affable with everyone, he goes a little cuckoo when it comes to Aoi specifically and will do anything for her sake, becoming comically murderous towards anyone who shows interest in her.

However, his main priority is her happiness and while his affections are intense, he respects her autonomy and takes her seriously in a way most people don't.

I love how Snakes in this series are portrayed because it really emphasizes the boundless love they have and how their love can save their chosen people. Akane's consistent love and devotion save Aoi from despair, and she lets herself hope for something better because she has his love to fall back on.

Outside of Aoi, Akane is happy chilling in his secondary. His Badger secondary gives him a reputation for stability and friendliness, our initial impression being the 'dependable class rep'. In the words of Aoi, he's someone who others will rely on and even if he complains, he will still carry out what's entrusted to him.

This is how he gets roped into being Vice President of the Student Council and trusted confidant of Supernatural-loathing Minamoto Teru, as well as becoming one of the Clock Keepers. It's honestly due to his lowkey appearance that it was such a big reveal when he turned out to be the human-turned-Supernatural Hanako's group was looking for.

AKANE AOI: LION SNAKE (BADGER PERFORMANCE)

In contrast, Aoi puts on an outward Badger performance. She tries to seem like the innocent, lovable girl everyone thinks she is. Someone steady and sweet, who carefully maintains the classroom flowers and the club garden with not a bad bone in her body.

In truth, Aoi is actually a Snake secondary.

During the No. 6 arc, Aoi has parts of her memory removed/amended by No.6's minions and offers to approach Hanako's group + Akane. Despite having little useful info in advance, she skilfully lulls them into a false sense of security, and pushes them into a pit.

The only one who avoids this fate is Akane (who knows her so well he can see right through her).

And it is when he confronts her that we finally see what lies beneath her Badger performance and her Snake masking: her neutral state.

The true Aoi is afraid people will be disappointed when they find out the real 'her'. She is acutely aware of how people view her and looks down on them, internally mocking everyone around her for falling for the beautiful mask she's put on. This belief makes her feel justified in putting a wall between herself and others, despite how this drives her to despair.

I've heard it said for Snake secondaries going neutral feels like taking off your bra, being able to take a breath and relax, and that moment feels very much so for Aoi, who is utterly relieved that her true authentic self is accepted and understood by Akane.

Going by that, I think she's actually a Burnt Lion primary. She hates liars, despite putting on a facade, and adores Nene's straightforward shining Lion primary. It's also when Nene starts keeping secrets from her that Aoi gets disillusioned and becomes resentful of Nene as well.

Her biggest conflict seems to stem from the fact she can't seem to find a way to exist as her authentic self, too afraid that her true self will be rejected and hated. As a result, she becomes resentful of herself and everyone else who is not 100% truthful with her, leading her to an extreme decision: to avoid being hurt by running away from it all.

YUGI TSUKASA: SNAKE LION

Oh Tsukasa, what a boy, what a character. A child frozen in time forever more.

I will say Snake primary for him, with Amane being the top of his list. Even as a child, his mind is always on his twin.

While playing in the garden, his main purpose is to find fun things to cheer up his brother, who is unfortunately confined due to his poor constitution. He is also cheerfully clingy, jumping into Amane's arms or hugging Amane whenever he feels like (esp obv in the fake world where they have a better relationship).

At 4 years old, when Tsukasa overhears that Amane will die, this little Snake loves his brother so so so much that he sacrifices himself to a malevolent deity to ensure Amane will survive and live in a healthy body.

Unfortunately, he comes back wrong. As a result, his love tips over into an extreme obsession with Amane/Hanako. Partly due to the aforementioned coming back wrong, he becomes a lot more suffocating and destructive, an existence that both haunts and defines Amane.

While he does seem hurt by the fact Amane hates him, he also relishes that his brother can't let him go.

As for his secondary, he's truly a Lion. The people around him, even his allies, have a tough time keeping him in check as he will simply charge into whatever he thinks is interesting, no matter how inappropriate or risky or dangerous.

It's refreshing that child!Nene was able to curb Tsukasa simply by being a louder Lion secondary.

---------------------

SO TO SUM UP;

Hanako/Yugi Amane: Badger Badger (Burnt + Exploded Primary, Snake Primary model)

Yashiro Nene: Lion Lion (Badger Secondary model)

Minamoto Kou: Bird Lion

Minamoto Teru: Badger Bird

Aoi Akane: Snake Badger

Akane Aoi: Lion Snake (Burnt Primary + Badger performance)

Yugi Tsukasa: Snake Lion

Thanks for reading!!

[writing-whump]

Character meta - Sortinghatschats

Based on the sortinghatschats system that describes the why and the how of characters and is the best personality system I know. For more info check out @wisteria-lodge and @sortinghatchats

Isaiah

Isaiah Wolfson is a bird primary. No other primary is this good in designing a completely new personality to go with a new system and this is exactly what Isaiah did, when he left his family at 18. He was eager too follow his father's system, his pack's system, until he witnessed it falling down. He saw the worst from his father, the double face, the masks, the paranoia and control, the abuse. Isaiah saw him at his lowest and he covered for him, cause he didn't want his brothers to know.

This brought him an existential crisis though. Cause obviously his father's system was flawed and so was his. Leaving gave him space to find himself, or rather, to completely rebuild himself. He gathered information. Studied psychology to learn more about the human psyche, to understand his own issues, his own confusion. And then it built into fascination. He got new role models, new work, new thoughts and figured out new codes for himself to live by. To be someone he can be proud of.

This new system led him to really embrace his badger secondary. Very untypical for a wolves, who like to posture, who need to have clear power ranks before they are capable of functioning in one room with others, who have their insistent shadows reflecting their deepest desires, raw, ruthless and always, no matter the rationality of it.

But Isaiah's method is caretaking. He bonds with people, offers help, considers their needs, remembers names. He bonds and community builds, throwing himself at young wolves, problematic cases. Seeing a person, he can't help but be kind and considerate. This is something he can only afford because of how insanely powerful and well-trained his shadow is. He gets respect for his power and skill - and that's how he gets away with acting out for character. Being polite, nice and kind, because he wants to. Because he can put people in place if they take it as a weakness.

His emphasis on politeness and good manners, on being gallant and well-dressed, orderly and systematic are all expressions of his smooth courtier badger wanting to be respectful and pleasant to people. And it works, cause man, this guy has contacts. He knows someone, who knows someone, who will help out. He doesn't live in packs or whole communities, he doesn't need it, but when he starts calling in for favours, the city bend itself over for him to fulfill his wish.

It's ironic Isaiah got to deal with an abusive exploded lion badger (his goal of keeping the pack strong is everything and he is willing to sacrifice everyone for it with a very sly badger secondary including the general opinion in his favour) for a father and a glory hound lion for a brother, only to meet and fall for Seline. Seline Silverstein, a proud loud lion primary.

There is steady certainty in how she trusts her instincts, her gut decisions and feelings. She doesn't do anything she absolutely doesn't want to do, following her dream as a cultural studies student and researcher at the university. She believes in being responsible for your own happiness, she has a clear goal and purpose and follows it.

Her outspoken morals, her inability to be silent, the need to provoke and challenge people when something doesn't feel right get her into trouble frequently. True to her primary she is very willing to go against the flow, her friends, people around her. Society won't pressure her away from what she feels is right and she backs it up with research. And she isn't loyal to people or sides either, she follows thoughts. Idealist to the core.

So when the family situation with her brother being a spoiled little brat as a wolf and using his puberty and wolf shadow as excuses made the situation unbearable, she didn't have qualms to move out. She isn't sorry to not belong in any witch coven or wolf pack, if they can't lower their pressure of her being a nice, soothing little witch. The classic role would be a very gentle, caring, tolerant female to calm the wolf tempers in the pack. Thanks, but no thanks. And even though this provokes and irritates the wolf society around her, she values her independence and he beliefs too much to back out.

The lion sometimes gets covered by a very strong and passionate bird secondary though. Seline researches, plans, strategizes and analyses. She is a prepper for all kinds of situations. The tendency to prepare is too much at times, the way she researchers every new skill, verifies information, reads herself into discourses before getting onto something.

Very fitting little bird secondary for her research work. A lion goal and determination followed by a meticulously prepared bird? She is a force to be reconed with, no matter her gentle sweet appearance.

Now as for the pairing, Seline is very attracted to Isaiah's thought out intellectual bird thinking. Isaiah has everything reasoned out, overexplains his tiniest beliefs and habits and Seline digs that stuff. She just loves to reason and think and she likes to back her feelings with clear evidence and eloquent thoughts and loads of reseach, true to her bird secondary. Bird Isaiah is an ideal intellectual sparring partner for her.

Matthew Blackwell has a very straightforward snake lion sorting. The lion secondary is very loud and direct, goes with his tough guy persona and angry wolf image. He has his temper issues and a very blood knight kind of passion for fighting. It's just fun for him, like a sport or a game. Getting into boxing and running really helped him find a good outlet for it instead of just causing him trouble.

The snake is more subdued and living in a rather neutral zone. Matthew didn't have people in his corner for a long time, and with no snake circle he relief on his agressive lion instead. Finding Isaiah, befriending Seline, getting a sort of maybe pack with them was a key moment for him. Now his snake is adopting people and though he is sometimes awkward in caring for them as well as he would like out of sheer inexperience, he is getting there. Maybe even on the way to built a useful badger secondary model for the caretaking required around his people who are strong and yet havr vulnerbilitied he can cover for.

And Matthew is a sweet marshmallow inside who will put his people above everything. He is the only loyalist in the trio, with Isaiah and Seline being idealists. As long as he fits Seline's felt goals and Isaiah's built system of how the world works, it's a stable combination.

Hector Wolfson is a double lion. Very intense sorting. His lion primary has a very Badger like flavour, influence of how he had been brought up in the pack. Duty, greater good of the whole, community. He accepts and tries to follow this, but inside he is a loud glory hound lion in it for himself, for acknowledgement of his strength, his leadership, him being the best.

Hector struggled with the idea that as the second oldest brother Isaiah had a stronger claim to succeed their father for the leadership of the pack than him. Not to mention that catching up to Isaiah was difficult on its own, but Hector never stopped trying. He worked his butt off in training, control, education. For how arrogant, ambitious and self-centered he is, there is lots of hard work, skill and determination to back him up. Lion willpower, let me tell you.

Hector never recovered from Isaiah abandoning what he considered his greatest goal and honour. Isaiah basically spit on what had been unfairly handed to him by leaving the pack instead of leading it. Hector should be happy about this, now he will most likely be the successor. Except Isaiah's reasoning doesn't make sense and Hector now never got to defeat him in a fair fight. He will never be able to prove he was better and more suited, when Isaiah doesn't consider his life long goal worth the fight. It angers him to no end.

Add to this the lion secondary that likes to power through, kick down doors, burn down bridges and say everything directly...not effective in schemer politics of the wolves, but very much so in getting respect and recognition for power and posturing alone. Wolves respect him. Not to mention his double lion has a very inspiring leadership quality to it. Lions are intense, loud and easy to make people follow them.

At the same time his lion secondary isn't destructive or aggressive to the point he couldn't fulfill his obligations. At civilised wolf parties and strategic meetings, Hector can keep his cool and insult people in a very polite measured manner no one can dispute. He cuts the pleasantries and talks around it short and gets things moving. No-one said lions couldn't be polite. They are just very direct and no nonsense about it.

By the way, his second in the pack, Delaney, shares the double lion sorting. Idealistic, goal-oriented, steady in her determination and very on par with Hector's direct approach.

The Wolfson trio (Hector has brown eyes though) is rounded up by a double snake youngest brother. Arnold "Arnie" Wolfson really got an unfortunate hand. A human brother in the family, he wasn't interesting for his father's ambitions and was left out of lot of the wolf pack business and power struggles.

Arnie has that air of shameless self-worth and self-interest of a young snake though. He likes fun, joy and the pretty things in life. He is here to enjoy himself. And he doesn't care about politics. The most he cares about other than himself is his tiny circle. The pack doesn't matter to him as a whole, he doesn't feel obliged to it. Isaiah and Hector are his people, and he wants them back and nice to each other. That's it. Where Hector can't forgive Isaiah for betraying their common goal and can't move past this to try to understand or figure out his mysteries, Arnie just longs to get back to his brother and reconcile. Isaiah can betray them or leave them or do incomprehensible stuff for wolf standards, but he is Arnie's person so he will be forgiven and given the benefit of the doubt. Arnie, in contrast to Hector, wants to understand, wants to find out, wants to get along.

His secondary is a playful snake. Arnie likes to tease, lie, push and change strategies in the middle if they don't work. Silver-tounged with mischief in his eyes, he enjoys the freedom of his humanity. He might not matter for the wolves, but he knows them and their etiquette enough to play at whatever situation to turn it in his favour. While wolves are busy figuring out ranks and fighting off their shadows, he will design the positions and talks to support his agenda. Quick on his feet and sneaky and very much enjoys it. Sonny Carter is a double snake as well - it's just very handy for charming behind the scene schemers.

Rip has a very obvious Lion secondary. He is instinctive, acts before he thinks and how he feels and he has that inspiring quality of buldozering lions who throw themselves at things as a solution.

A lot less obvious is his badger primary. Rip thinks in groups and wants to belong, but because of the abuse from his father and losing his family because of him, he basically kicked himself out of his own community. Even though he doesn't trust people and doesn't think he can be part of anything anymore, he still creates a role for himself with the strays, protects younger wolves, keeps the street strays off radar and big conflicts to not attract bigger pack's attention. This is something he feels like doing.

Rip has a strong sense of justice, that's why I first thought he might be a lion primary. But it's just a very strong felt primary. His sense of justice is about what's best for the weakest person and for the overall community. He is always aware of his role, what he can offer and who he can burden, in relation to others. Isaiah and Rip understand each other well, because of Isaiah's incredibly badger flavoured system. He recognises the values in Rip, although Rip is actually the actual badger here.

...

Isaiah - Bird with strong badger flavoured system/Badger

Seline - Lion/Bird

Matthew - Snake/Lion with a Badger model on the way

Hector - Lion/Lion

Arnie - Snake/Snake

Rip - Badger/Lion

Shawn - Badger/Snake

Dylan - Snake/Badger

Kieran - Snake/Lion

Domincik - Snake/Badger

Roy - Lion/Badger

Liliana - Snake/Snake

Mr Wolfson - exploded Lion/Badger

Delaney - Lion/Lion

Sonny - Snake/Snake

Caleb - Lion/Snake

[grimmplacehq]

CHARACTER INFO:

Character name: Jason Marcus Gently Age & Birthday: 22 & April 1st Gender & Pronouns: Cisman & He/Him Occupation: Baker & Owner of Gentle Confections Blood Status: Halfblood Previous House: Slytherin Previous Affiliation: Neutral Face Claim: Logan Lerman

Jason is taken by Boo

BIOGRAPHY:

(tw: homophobia, queer bashing, arson, violence)

Jason Gently has had something wrong with him for as long as he can remember. At home it had always been loving, and caring. His family were all odd in similar ways and knew how to love each other endlessly for who they were as people, for the things that made them unique. Unfortunately for Jason, the rest of the world wasn’t quite as accepting of his brand of oddities. From a young age, the combination of constant bullying from other children and his own accident prone nature had him hurting more often than not.

Despite this, Jason was always happy, always smiling, he made friends in the muggle school he learned in growing up. His best friend was named Martin, and he was the most important person in Jason’s life outside of his family. Jason loved him. When he received his Hogwarts letter at the end of primary, Jason decided to finally tell Martin how he felt. After Martin responded by attacking him with a knife, he was all the more glad to be going away to Hogwarts the next year, even with the newly acquired scars he now needed to hide.

His family was incredibly excited to have another wizard in their family, Christopher Gently being a halfblood himself. They were all there to see him off to Hogwarts his first year. He was sorted into Sytherin, felt immediate pride for his house and the brilliant people in it, but as most things for him it wasn’t quite so easy.

The bullying followed him to Hogwarts with his sorting. Other Slytherins found it all too easy to pick at his faults, he wasn’t a pureblood, he was too small, too timid, too gentle for the house. His ambition was focused on simpler things. He became known as the misplaced Hufflepuff amongst his peers; A badger in snake’s clothing, and far from accepted by other Slytherins.

He didn’t stop being himself, but he learned to be more quiet. He learned to stay out of other students' way, how to shut up and take himself to the hospital wing when he was roughed up, how to be happy with his own company. And his time at Hogwarts was as happy as it could have been along with everything else. He didn’t get the best grades in his classes, but his ambition showed every here and there in the things he took interest in, and Jason became extremely good at a specific handful of skills. He managed to become an animagus, and it became all too easy to walk around in his little tabby cat form without being bothered. All was fine until the end of seventh year, just before his graduation.

The attack was covered minimally by wizard media. It was decided that it had been caused by a gas fire, but the way the mansion had exploded all at once had been so sudden. And it left Jason with nothing more than an inheritance. He would have given it all for his family back.

Fresh out of Hogwarts and now alone in the world, he put his money and one of his few talents into the running of his own little bakery in Godric's Hollow. He thought about the wrongs done to him by muggle and magical hands alike daily, and mourned for things he could never get back. Despite it all he took no side in the war, refusing to raise a hand or wand to another person. He opened his door and his heart to anyone and continued to love easily and unconditionally as his family had always taught him to, wishing to never be the cause of another person’s pain. He put others before himself at every opportunity, and somehow survived to see the end of the war. 

With the war over and both sides hurting, Jason hoped that somehow everyone might be able to heal from it together, so they could move forward into a kinder world.

[missbrunettebarbie]

Since I am 99% sure I was the first person to type Asriel as a Double Lion, your interpretation is fascinating, but honestly, I am not sold on Badger Lion. Like, I can totally see where you are coming from, and this interpretation of Asriel is perfectly acceptable, but I would like to debate a bit, just for fun.

I should first say that 1. I am only talking about book Asriel and 2. I haven't read the books in 4 years or so.

Your analysis is gr8 and you do make some great points, but I do feel like it gets a bit extracanonical. I cannot remember Asriel feeling hatred for humanity. For the Authoruty and the Church? Sure. But for humankind as a whole I think Asriel seems to have more disappointment. Like, you could have been so much more than this yet you bow to an unseen presence? *shakes head* I think one needs to read Asriel as 1:1 parallel to Satan to say he hates humanity as a whole. But this reading doesn't make much sense when Asriel himself is human and he def doesn't dehumanize himself. He's not a Burned primary, he's an Exploded one. I don't know much about Magneto, so I will have to mostly leave that part of the analysis untouched, but I would like to offer a counterparallel for Asriel: Thanos. For me Thanos is thee Dark Exploded Badger primary and he has some very iconic lines that express his worldview. I think a Dark Badger Asriel would sound more like a Thanos, which IMO he doesn't in canon.

The daemon point is very interesting and I actually don't think I've connectrd daemons to someone's primary before. I always saw them as an expression of the secondary. In order to analysis someone's primary based on their daemon, I think one needs to look at the symbolism of that animal. So here's what I found about the symbolism of the snow leopard:

The snow leopard carries symbolism related to solitude, balance, and mystery due to its elusive nature and rare appearances in its harsh, high-altitude habitat. As an emblem of the mountains in which it resides, the snow leopard is often a symbol for the spirit of the high, untouched places in the world, representing purity, beauty, and harshness in harmony. The snow leopard is also symbolic of adaptability and resilience, given its ability to thrive in severe, inhospitable environments, and it often stands for silent strength and hidden power.

Honestly, if anything, this actually made me even more sure that Asriel is a Lion primary. Every single sentence here sounds way too Lion-y. A wolf would have probably suited a Badger primary more due to the symbolism around packs vs lone wolves. But Asriel's daemon is not a wolf nor anything associated with either groups or loneliness. He gets something associated with solitude, purity and harshness in harmony.

My memory of Asriel and Marisa in book 3 is very fuzzy, but iirc killing Metraton/whoever the hell is in charge was always Asriel's goal. Sure, he -alongside Marisa- does die to protect Lyra, but in the meantime he also acomplishes his OG goal of leaving the Kingdom of Heaven with no leader. Asriel does not sacrifice his goal for his daughter's protection, the two happen to be aligned. We don't actually know what he'd choose if he had to.

I am going to go metatextual here, but while Lyra may be the protagonist and Asriel her father, I don't think the narrative was ever interested in his fatherhood the way it was interested in Marisa's motherhood. The most fatherly moment Asriel can get is to realize the daughter he never cared for is becoming the hero Asriel could only dream of being. Lyra stops being Some Child He Vaguely Feels Responsible For TM and starts being Important to the Cause TM. The sacrifice is less about Lyra the Person and more about Lyra the Ideal IMO.

The only person Asriel cares for as a person -arguably as an equal- instead of a more abstract concept is Marisa, and I think that's just because well, he's still human at the end of the day. And even with Marisa, he's never exactly falling to his knees in front of her. Instead he ties her, gags her and loves taunting her.

Anyway, just my two scents. Asriel is fascinating, but he also doesn't get enough interiority for anyone to say with 110% conviction: "yes, THIS is Asriel deep down".

shc drabbles: asriel belacqua, or, the Double Lion that ISN'T a Double Lion

ok so asriel has literally. haunted me since he got typed as a double lion. and this isn't to say that interpretation isn't correct.

however HOWEVER - do I think that's his sorting? no. I think he's a Lion secondary (that sometimes tries and pulls a Marisa Coulter-esque Snake sec), but his primary? Hufflepuff, baby. this is one of fiction's TRUE evil Badger Lions, and, to be honest, it's not even that hard to see how.

compare and contrast with Erik Lehnsherr, his nearest counterpart. Magneto has a kind of Badger-y shell on his Primary that dovetails with the dehumanizing aspects of his cause, rallies people behind him (it implies a kind of group care without him ever kind of NEEDING the group if that makes sense), and may well be something borrowed from his old mirror Charles Xavier, who Badgers so hard it sometimes hard to see his own Snake-yness. Anyhow, I digress. What I'm saying is - Magneto is the true Double Lion. He has his Cause, and when we see him in First Class, it's a typical low-health revenge fantasy Cause. then Charles intervenes and tries to guide him to a kind of belonging, a reckoning within his sense of unity amongst mutants (and humans, because Charles doesn't discriminate), but once that philosophy goes against Erik's newest Cause (born bloodstained and dripping the SECOND after the coin goes through Shaw's skull), he abandons Charles. and that's Erik's journey throughout these prequel movies especially - he finds a Cause, something disrupts it, he Improvises, then discovers a new one, hidden like an ember deep within. it's all internal and driven and NATURAL AND NORMAL to Erik to do this. he's a Lion.

now take Asriel - Asriel Belacqua, who EVERYONE knows to be a bit of a tight-arse and basically has never related to anyone, ever. his daemon is a snow leopard because the dude basically has the Arctic wastes swirling around inside of him. now that coldness; where is born it from? does it come from a particularly frozen Cause, a sense of isolation on a journey no one understands? when we see Erik on an equivalent journey, he's never ALONE like that - not really. Erik is either brooding or dangerously damaged or ticking over until his Lion comes roaring through. Asriel? even when he's getting what he wants, his glee is - dangerous. he's described as having eyes that glitter with savage amusement or rage. what I'm trying to get it as Asriel has an EXTERNAL primary - and what is his External Primary geared towards? hating humankind.

Now, without getting into the weeds of analysis too much, Asriel is supposed to be a cipher for Satan, the one who wants to destroy Heaven etcetera etcetera. And what we can take from this is Asriel feels fundamentally APART. Excluded. And he HATES it. he hates how the Authority and the Magisterium have curried the world into their little factions of power and belonging, he hates how he perceives himself as the ONLY one to see all this, he hates how Lyra, who is a real Lion primary, can survive on her own rage and power and instead he is burdened by it, because if there was ever someone who didn't have a LIFE outside of his raison d'etre, it's Asriel. It's hard to see, but once you see, you can't unsee it. And boy oh boy, does Asriel dehumanize HARD. He sees it fundamentally in tune to a greater plan (the plan being that he will free the world from oppression, but he shows precious little actual FERVOUR for the people he's supposedly freeing, because as we say, he hates them), and literally anyone who comes in his path he doesn't see as valuable/sees as expendable becomes Not Important. Roger Parslow, the child, who he sacrifices to open the new world. Lyra, time and time again. Even Marisa.

SPEAKING of; Marisa Coulter, Double Snake, is the only one who has ever gotten past all of this destructive Badger armour. Because she's a Loyalist - and Asriel UNDERSTANDS that. His one misstep outside of his mission was in his personal life when he threw caution to the wind to have an affair with Marisa, have their baby, and then grant that baby to Jordan College. Who knows, maybe this was the seed of him starting to dehumanize EVERYONE. But she's the only one he bows to, ever, even slightly. When she's injured in the last book, he lifts her and carries her to his aircraft with a gentleness NO ONE ELSE sees in the books. When she wakes in the other room and despairs of what comes next, whens he asks why he didn't just tell her he was trying in actuality to save Lyra/save the fate of humanity, he says wearily "I lied because I thought you'd believe a lie." At his weakest, at his most vulnerable, he turns to Marisa, because she's the only connection he has left to whatever human being was inside him. And his ending - falling into the abyss with her to save their child? That's the most these toxic, twisted Loyalists could ever give their unparented child. A fitting ending.

@wisteria-lodge I'd love to get your thoughts on this. What say you, Badger Lion, or Double Lion Asriel?

[wisteria-lodge]

bird primary (badger system) + slightly burnt lion secondary (invisible badger model) (snake model)

Hi! I figured I'd just answer some of the prompts you had listed and see what happens! I do have an idea of what I am, but I really just wanted to try and describe myself without my "mask" as much as possible.

Oooh, does this mean we're going to get a lot of models?

I can be very polite and can err on the side of being a doormat to keep the people around me happy

Invisible Badger? Or if this is your mask... Invisible Badger model?

and hide my more "intense" character traits,

"Intense" is very often a Lion word (either primary or secondary.)

and developed a habit of lying to try and hide my neurodivergent qualities, like being forgetful and not completing things on time, but I'm unsure if those things are actually me, since both of those qualities can feel like a prison in the way of actually getting to know me, one that I force on myself out of habit and a feeling of necessity.

I don't diagnose over the internet, that's impossible and unethical, but it does sound like ADHD. Lying to cover up the fact that you forgot something, very normal ADHD thing, and not getting things in on time... ADHD is certainly one of the places that can come from. I would agree that these things don't say anything about your personality, they're disabilities you eventually build coping strategies/works around for.

and I will lie to get an extension on something I forgot to do (and can be quite clever in my lies,) and I just wanted to put those two qualities out there, since you probably won't hear much about them going forward.

In terms of this system... yeah, that "habit of lying" definitely sounds like a Snake secondary model you built as a coping mechanism. You love it, and it's useful, but it's something you did have to learn.

I love being helpful

This could be coming from a few places, but on the surface the energy is either very Badger secondary - or Idealist primary.

Anyway, sorry, it's long, but this is also a form of therapy, in a weird way.

When you really get down to it, basically every personality system is.

As a child, I was always described as "bossy" and a "know-it-all" by those that didn't like me, and "intelligent" and "empathetic" by those who did. I do think they're all accurate, though, and have been working on "reclaiming" the bossy description. I identify as a woman, so that can be tough to deal with.

You sound like Hermione. I definitely think you've got Lion somewhere - could definitely be secondary, or possibly primary. Young Idealists (Lion and Bird) often come across as 'bossy' and 'know-it-all.' Intelligent could be anything, and so could empathetic... although I'm already starting to see some Badger Secondary language coming in, and "empathetic" definitely fits with that.

Lol. Some examples of each:

Love examples.

For Bossy:  I was well-known as a kid for talking "at" people rather than with. My very best friend from preschool (and through to fourth grade, when her family moved) was a girl that had moved there from Mexico and didn't speak a lick of English, at first. My two reasons for befriending her when everyone else was avoiding her was 1) I knew she needed a friend, so I would be that friend.

Very cute. Although this impulse seems to be coming from your primary, which is interesting. ("It is RIGHT for me to be her friend.) Could be a Badger primary. Could also be Idealist.

2) (remember, I was FOUR) since she didn't speak any English, I could just talk, and talk, and talk and she would just listen. Lolol! As she became fluent in English, we discovered we had EVERYTHING in common, and I learned to let other people speak. (Sorta.)

The tendency to steamroll over people... can be a Lion secondary thing. An Exploded Idealist primary thing. An Authoritarian Badger thing? Just, it can come from a lot of places, because it can also be a neurodivergent thing, especially if you're concerned about memory stuff. Then talking over people can be related to working memory - you interrupt is because the worry that if you don't, the thought will just fall out of your head completely.

For the "know-it-all" aspect: I've been a dancer since I was a kid, and I skipped a "grade" in my dance classes early. Usually, it would go predance, kinderdance, and then Ballet 1, which would be your first "real" year of ballet instruction. I did predance and was immediately put in Ballet 1 with the older kids the next year. Yes, it was partially because I was very talented, but the most likely reason was that, when all the other kids during our classes and performances were goofing around or waving at their parents, I would become extremely huffy and try to remind them we were "serious performers" and would wind up pushing the other kids around to what their next position was and generally try to direct them in what came next.

That chip that you've got to take it seriously, you've got to follow the rules... that's the authoritarian etiquette thing you do see from Badger Primaries for me. Even the sweetest Badger primaries, your Snow Whites, gets strict and bossy when there's a job to do and people are messing around. It can also be very Black-and-White Bird - I get it, I'm doing the right thing, why isn't everyone else? I could see either making sense for you. But I am thinking you're an External Primary (Bird or Badger.)

I think they figured I'd be more "stimulated" in a class where I actually was learning instead of goofing off, and I was. Lol! I also had trouble with correcting people at inappropriate times that took me a while to figure out.

Welcome to neurodivergence. Every time I hear someone do the Titantic "I'm king of the world thing!" there a part of my brain that wants to say "um, actually, he says 'I'm the king of the world." No - bad impulse.

I'd correct people's grammar or spelling or if they got something wrong, thinking I was helping them, and then become very confused when they'd get angry and defensive. But, I figured out when I should just keep my mouth shut eventually. Lol.

Okay, I'm starting to have a theory about you. Because of the grammar policing specifically. All the police behavior I know comes from young Bird primaries. And I think it's because - grammar is a system, right? You're taught that this is the system, this is correct. Birds love systems. But English grammar specifically is a... bad system. These rules we're taught are arbitrary, recent, half of them only apply some of the time, and they don't reflect common usage (which changes anyway.) But a young Bird secondary is going to take a second to get to the point where they realize that. I would expect a Badger primary to police language in more community-of-practice ways - don't swear, that word is offensive, don't use the Lord's name in vain, etc - instead of really getting into the nuts and bolts of the actual language stuff.

For Intelligent: Well, it's the fact that I knew all the stuff I said above. Lol. I was a voracious reader and just absolutely absorbed knowledge like a sponge. I was eventually banned from participating in my class' spelling bees because I won too many times, so my teacher would have me sit with the word list and check if my classmates were right. Lol.  In case you haven't picked up on it, I was a very intense, passionate child. Lol.

It's very interesting that you locked on to spelling and grammar specifically. It seems like there may have been a puzzle aspect there that you liked.

For Empathetic: I pretty much formed the entirety of my friend groups out of other kids I felt had been pushed aside by the "popular kids," like my previously mentioned friendship. I'll never forget the moment I knew I'd be on the opposite end of "popular" for my whole school life: I was invited to a cool girl's party, but she told me my friend would not be allowed to go. I'm so proud of my younger self as I remember without even thinking making a scrunched up face and telling her I didn't wanna go if my friend couldn't go. That girl never liked me again, and since I went to a small school system (as well as some of my unfortunate social skills, which definitely came from my later diagnosed ADHD and potentially diagnosable autism, which I suspect but don't know for certain)

Oh, I called it! Anyway... I'm really doubling down on Idealist (almost certainly Bird), because of the specifics of this friend group. You built it like a Cause: "these people deserve a friend group." It's like a little revolutionary group, what you have in common is being Outcasts. It's a very Badger-flavored cause, sure, but this isn't how Badger primaries make friends. A universal Badger would absolutely invite the loners into the group, but it would be about inviting loners into the main group. For a Badger to specifically only trust loners they would have to be quite burned... and I'm not getting Burned primary from you at all.

I'm also doubling down on Lion secondary. You really like just planting your feet, speaking your truth, and if other people don't like it - that's a them problem. You didn't even have to think about it, and that made you feel strong and powerful - not nervous or anxious.

If I'm playing a video game, it's a super easy answer, but not one I like admitting. I just go the easiest route, which is often, from a meta standpoint, a guide.

Easiest, most direct point to the finish line? Just smash on through? LION.

Lol. I'm the same in pretty much all of my low-stakes problem-solving: Whatever solves the problem the quickest and the easiest is the best way to go. I LOVE short cuts, but not if they're overly complicated.

LION.

I'm also the type to think that doing something myself is faster than explaining my situation to someone else and ask for help.

I really think this is a Lion secondary thing. They just GO, and only ask for help if they've tried first and failed.

For a really difficult decision, if I'm given too much time to think about it, I usually flounder for hours or days or months or years until somebody finally puts a deadline on my decision. Suddenly, I go into "problem-solving mode" and I just choose SOMETHING.

That's Lion too. And there's a lot of power to that, honestly. But Lions have a kind of on/off way of operating at either 100% ('problem-solving mode' as you call it) or 0%.

Is it always the best choice? Honestly, I'm not sure there really ARE best choices at this point. Just the choices you make and how you prune them to your liking afterwards. I'm at my best making a decision when I have zero time to make it.

You're not a Prep-Work secondary. Thinking too long about a decision makes you feel worse, not better. You're getting in your own head, and psyching yourself out.

As an example, I do theater, and I LOVE the feeling of having to problem solve backstage, you have literal SECONDS to come up with something, ANYTHING to fix a problem, and whether the solution is perfect just goes out the door and all that matters is that SOMETHING happens, and there's nothing more freeing, since I have a tendency towards perfectionism or analysis paralysis. Where others freeze up, I'm sprinting across the stage, suddenly zeroing in on EXACTLY where the missing prop is, and putting it back in place JUST as the curtain rises. It's a rush like no other, and one of the few places I feel really, truly competent.

There are a LOT of jobs where this ability is ABSOLUTELY key. So long as you're in the right place, doing the right thing, this is a superpower. This is why we love Lions.

My fantasy is always finding a place where I feel really competent, where I can feel safe, have stability, and be able to be useful for that place.

That "useful" thing - that's you're Idealist primary talking. The "competent" thing... that's a key thing for you, this idea that you want to feel competent, and that you don't as much as you would like to. Your current problem solving strategy isn't so much fiery Lion as it is doormat Badger. I think it's likely that your secondary is a little Burnt (which is why you feel incompetent) and you've started modeling Badger to compensate.

Success and being seen as such is also part of that fantasy.

Having a lot of thoughts about being publicly recognized for your success... I mean yes of course it's a human thing, but it hits harder for young idealists.

Theater can be that for me, but stability is also part of my fantasy, and we live under the crushing weight of capitalism, so I could never make enough money to live while putting in all the time and effort for it that I'd want (at least, not right now, I haven't totally given up.) I still give as much of my time as I can to theater and the arts, like writing and creating. I love the theater because of the fast pace, and how I grew up in it and understand the process from top to bottom. Those in that community see me as incredibly competent in turn, instead of as "odd" or "forgetful" or "decision-phobic."

You've heard that ADHD people make great entrepreneurs? Not many people actually enjoy that fast-paced, freelance lifestyle. I think you'd be a great event co-ordinator, great at fund-raising and advertising, great production assistant... and those are only the fields I know something about. Don't let the haters get you down. You don't have to model Badger all the time.

As a kid, I was really drawn to Beauty and the Beast because of Belle's oddness, her ostracization from her own community, and her fulfilling my fantasy of finding a magical place with other "odd" people who accept her, see her as competent, accept her quirks, and keep her far, far away from the people who shun her. :)

She's also a really REALLY loud Lion secondary.

I also really identified with any girl character who was the sort of "rich, bitchy girl who's actually misunderstood and just wants friends." I didn't grow up especially rich, but I grew up with a terrible home life, people who shunned me because of me appearing "bossy" and "mean" when it was all a misunderstanding, and I also grew up feeling incompetent and out of my depth in "normal" situations like most poor little rich girls are shown when they try to adapt to life outside of their mansion. Examples are Elle Woods and Pacifica Northwest, among hundreds of others. The final type is Katara from Avatar, who I relate to based on where she feels most competent, in the "heat of battle," and how she struggles with learning to accept her own intensity (my bossiness or my tendency to wanna cut straight to the point, while also being someone filled with empathy and a love for certain levels of traditionally feminine self-expression.)

It makes a lot of sense that you identify with Katara. She is also a very fiery Lion secondary... who feels culturally pressured to model this caretaking Badger. And clearly she's extremely empathetic, and VERY idealistic. But she's more successful when she gets comfortable with her Lion.

(Sokka had a similar journey, learning he doesn't have to be a "warrior guy" Lion secondary... and instead leans into his natural Bird secondary. It's clearly something the show was interested in exploring. Also, now I really want to write a sorting of Legally Blonde. Because I would be VERY surprised if Elle is not a Lion secondary also.)

(also I've never really thought of as "poor little rich girl" as fun fictional way of exploring neurodivergence, but it honestly hangs together really well, especially for autism. More thought is needed.)

I feel powerful whenever I'm feeling competent, which if you can't tell is a really important word to me. Lol. I've been seen as incomptent in so many ways: clumsy, forgetful, socially too intense, too bossy, too much of a doormat when I try to turn down my intensity, etc... So, being seen as and feeling competent is my ultimate fantasy, like being a "boss babe" (cringe) where I'm walking around an office or a theater making quick decisions and talking about some deadline is part of my power fantasy.

It's not cringe. It makes you special. Like me? Oh no, that's not my fantasy. That sounds so stressful.

Lol. I work in a community serving position which I do like, but I hate how much "being nice" is involved, where your tone is monitored and you could get in trouble based on the way you said something, which can be a blind spot for me (though my history and passion for acting has helped me a bit in this.)

This definitely explains where the "doormat" Invisible Hufflepuff is coming from. You work in a job where "customer service face" is really, really important. But I bet your Idealist primary likes the... idealism of it all.

I think I'd feel more "free" and less caged in if I worked somewhere where your tone didn't matter quite as much.

I agree! And even within the community service/non-profit organization sphere, there definitely are jobs that are less public-facing.

I feel most powerful solving problems and jumping last minute on set changes in theater, or learning lines or a dance to fill in for a part in only a few hours. "Prep-time" can almost be a prison to me, when the ADHD/perfectionism creeps in and messes me up.

It is weird that "perfectionism" is so often treated as a cute quickly flaw. It a curse, it it the enemy of art... all this stuff I don't need to tell you. But yeah, this all sounds like Lion.

I've had a lot of difficult times, and all of them have come down to losing my community. I have had to walk away from friends and family due to ab*se and walk alone MULTIPLE times

On the surface this looks like a community-driven Badger primary, and like... it could be. It absolutely could be. One of the interesting aspects of this submission was how little you talked about primary, and how much you talked about secondary. I'm getting that your secondary IS your focus right now. You're looking for a place where your skills are needed, where you feel competent, useful, and secure. Once you've got THAT in place... you can start dealing with the metaphysical stuff.

I've failed at trying to make myself competent in places that didn't serve me, and I've been searching for a place to land ever since. I've found my community in some aspects of my life, but in others I'm still looking, but I haven't given up. My most important relationships are my friends and chosen family. I'm much more suspicious than I was as a kid, just inviting anyone I saw who needed a friend to be mine, but the people I have let in I truly cherish. :)

So my best guess... is that you're a Bird primary with a pretty Badger looking system. It's a system you're just letting sit at the moment, it's working fine. But to me, the way you write about switching communities here that match you Bird, not Badger. The process of leaving was terrible, but you're going to find a place that suits you (and your Lion secondary) better... next time. And you absolutely well.

Thank you so much!

You are so welcome.

Thank you to rinamars for such an excellent submission. If you’d like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

If you’d like to read more about the system I’m using, my explanation is right here.

[reds-burrow]

How does a badger learn to say no without dehumanizing? I am a bird with a strong badger system that grew up in a family where saying "no" was taken as a personal offense. So i get anxiety ridden when i even consider saying no to someone. I might try to phrase it in a way where maybe i will say yes in some distant future. And saying no to someone for another person? Dear lord. Its just as stressful if not more so bc im just the messenger, but ill get the repercussions of the "no". Ugh!

Oh boy, can I relate. Saying no is hard, and if you have Badger Primary values it can feel like you're letting people down. You may feel uncomfortable or guilty. You may worry the other party may see you as selfish, difficult, or incompetent. You may worry that you'll hurt the other person's feelings or disappoint them. Or you may struggle in remembering your own needs and that you ability to help is a finite resource. And let's be clear here: these are not healthy Badger values. They are, in fact, Exploded Badger values. So, what can we do about it? First, I would examine why you have trouble saying no. In your case nonny, it sounds like you were trained from childhood to always expect a negative reaction to a "no." It's going to take practice to train your brain otherwise. Maybe try with a trusted friend or family member. Someone you know will continue to love you, even if you aren't at their beck and call.

It's okay to start small too. If a direct "no" is too much right now, try a offering the person an alternative. "I can't, but try asking so-and-so." It's okay to be polite and soften the denial, but be clear and firm that they need to look elsewhere for help. Being wishy-washy will only lead to confusion or irritation.

Given you're a Bird Primary, it should also help to re-frame your thinking. One of the most important things someone with a Badger system can learn and remember is that they count as a person too. Their time and effort is just as important as other people's. So, if the goal is to find a compromise that will hurt everyone the least, you need to take into account the toll that saying yes will take on you.

You have the right to boundaries in your relationships. Stand firm in the knowledge that doing what is right for you benefits everyone in the long-run. Having the freedom of "no" will keep you healthy physically, mentally, and emotionally. The alternative can lead to burn-out and resentment which is ultimately more of a detriment to your community. And if someone doesn't respect your "no," then they are showing that they don't respect you, and it may be time to distance yourself from those people.

[reading-sometimes]

Equestria Girls: Rainbow Rocks SHC Sorting

This is part 2 of a 4-part series. An explanation of the SHC system by @wisteria-lodge is here.

Sunset: Badger Lion

This movie is about Sunset learning how to unburn her Badger primary. It's pretty hard for her, since she feels like she's not part of any group in the first place. Almost everyone in the school hates her because she bullied them for years. She's not a part of the band, while every other member of her friend group is. Everyone in her friend group keeps bringing up how she turned into a demon, describing her demon form as horrifyingly awful. When the new students hate her, she assumes that it was because of something that she did, which would be pretty painful to a Badger primary like Sunset.

She uses her Badger primary pretty well, though. She volunteers to show new students around the school, so that they can know the new her before they heard stories about how she was before she was redeemed. She kept a book that let her contact Princess Celestia, because deep down, she knew that running away from her was a mistake. Eventually, she joins the band. She unburns her Badger primary as the school forgives her, and she feels more like part of a group.

It almost seems like Sunset has a Bird primary model, since she talks about how she's changed completely as a person. It's caused by her dropping her Glory Hound Lion primary model, though. Sunset's Lion secondary primarily appears in her temper and impulsivity, just like how it did in the first movie.

Twilight: Double Bird

When Twilight can't figure out how to defeat the villains, she immediately assumes that it's all her fault. Everyone expects Twilight to fix everything, so the pressure feels suffocating.

Sunset and Twilight have a nice conversation about how everyone expects them to be something that they're not (Twilight, because everyone sees her as someone who can do everything perfectly, and Sunset, who everyone sees as still being a delinquent). They both don't want to let anyone down. Twilight wants to live up to everyone's perceptions of her, but she's trying to be something that doesn't exist. It's caused by her perfectionism, but also because everyone assumes that she's a Badger primary, even though she's not. Her Badger primary model starts to explode here, and it gets worse throughout the series.

She ties her self-worth to bringing value to her friends, and when she can't do that, she falls apart. “But why wasn't it working? I should know what to do. How could I not know what to do? How could I have failed like this?”

Sunset helps Twilight by saying that no one can do anything alone, and that she needs to rely on her friends. Because this is a Badger primary show, Twilight's Badger primary model is treated as a good thing, even when it causes problems.

[wisteria-lodge]

Love this. I am here for Badger Primary Jack - I think there's even a little tension with Jack (as a very expansive Badger) not totally... getting? why Rose hates her community so much. I mean, they're just people, right? He very quickly gets there (because he is a snake who pivots fast) but there's still a moment.

Also Cal as exploded Snake works so well. Everything is about Rose, and Rose is a possession. We've got the collar metaphor of the necklace, we've got Rose comparing herself to a china doll, and we've got the note she puts in the safe with the necklace and Jack's drawing of her: "Now you can keep us both locked in your safe" - VERY explicitly linking herself to a valuable object.

And actually, the whole drawing session is very much Rose's plan to tell Cal in no uncertain terms that they are done. And it's got steps. We know Cal has been pressuring her into sex (and that she's been saying no) and we know that he's trying to 'own' her with the Heart of the Ocean Necklace. So she gets Jack to draw her naked with the necklace, which becomes this perfect symbolic way of saying 'you will never own me.' And then includes the note, just for a little extra explanation. Very Bird. A Lion secondary Rose probably would have just slapped him.

Sorting Hat Chats - Titanic (1997)

I watched Titanic twice in two days and this is the result of that. I finally remembered that I make these types of posts.

Here is a summary of the system I am using (credit: @wisteria-lodge ) and because it has been a long time let the record show: Fuck JKR, I do not support her view at all.

The movie is ROSE'S story, not actually Rose and Jack's story. The thing with it is while Jack is integral to the plot, what matters is that he exists and he saved her. He doesn't go through an arc. This is Rose's story, and it is of her self actualization.

Rose says she knows exactly how her life is going to play out, and we can see she hates it. Even before she has met Jack she is subtly rebelling against her mother and Cal. She hates the bird primary model she wears, the one that has all the rules that define her life.

The real Rose, the one that isn't stifled under the weight of high society, is a Lion primary. When she is herself she smokes, drinks more than Jack, competes with the big strong Swedish man, flips off Cal's valet, and is extremely horny.

She is a lion primary. She wishes to do what she feels is right. On the Titanic her 'cause' is "say fuck you to high society and abscond with my manic pixie dream Leonardo DiCaprio." Then after the iceberg hits it becomes "save Jack at all costs and also other people I come across." Jack getting arrested for stealing the diamond is because she felt an obligation to tell her mother and Cal about the iceberg.

When she is telling Jack why she came back to save him, asking how she figured he didn't steal, she says "I didn't. I just realized I already knew."

As for her secondary, we are introduced to her as she is doing pottery. Then we are introduced to her a second time with her comparing the Titanic to the Mauritania. Rose Dewitt Bukater is a Bird secondary.

Rose knows things. We see her as an old woman and see she travels with her pictures that she has collected. Young Rose collects paintings that she likes and clearly has a taste for fine art. She insults Ismay by bringing up Freud. She knows everything about the people in high society around her, though she clearly doesn't like them. She has jack teaching her things. She knows what ice fishing and did ballet. She becomes an actress. And she knows how every interaction will go when it comes to High Society, as well as different languages.

I debated her being a Lion secondary because in the third act she looks like one, wielding an axe and jumping off boats and pushing people up against walls saying she is through with being polite. But I think in a disaster scenario anyone will look like Lion secondary. Plus, when she is half frozen to death she gets the attention of the boat by taking the whistle of the man she had seen blowing it before. An observation paying off.

JACK DAWSON was an interesting case to sort. I don't know if this is a hot take, but I think Jack is a Badger primary. Jack cares about people. Within two days of being on the ship he already knows the name of a random little girl on the ship (Cora) and calls her his favorite girl. He learns people's names quickly is incredibly affable with them. The way he talks about the one legged prostitute or the woman who wore all her jewels, he remembered them. He's barely been in his cabin with the Swedish guys for one minute and he's already treating them like his best friends.

I think it really is summed up with the scene on Titanic as it departs.

Jack, waving to the people: "Goodbye!" Fabrizio: "You know somebody?" Jack: "Of course not, that's not the point!"

Fabrizio joins in on saying goodbye after Jack. For Jack saying goodbye was either because he was saying goodbye to England, or because everybody was waving goodbye and he wanted to join in on the activity.

I think it's also clear when he saves Rose. He has only seen this girl once from a distance, but when he sees her about to throw herself off the ship he is immediately ready to save her. He's too involved now.

But he doesn't have to jump in and rescue her. Because he talks her out of it. He tells her about an experience he had falling into cold water, and clearly makes it seem like he's ready to jump in after her. He's already taking his coat and shoes off to jump in. His strategy seems to be, "if I can't convince her to save herself I can convince her to save me."

I think he's a Snake secondary. He immediately blends into high society by mimicking the mannerisms of the people around him and by playing himself so incredibly confident in his meager origins that they are charmed by him. There's also the seen wear he disguises himself so he can get a chance to talk to Rose. He also is clearly at home playing poker and has a good poker face.

He almost comes off as a Bird secondary because he knows so much stuff, but he makes it clear that he doesn't have a plan, he kinda just goes wear he goes living day to day. So I think that his grab bag of skills is literally just things he has picked up from day to day life.

I think the Badger Snake sorting works as shorthand for telling you what you need to know about him. He's sexy and fun because he's a Snake secondary, but also worldly and kind because he's a Badger primary.

And last but least I want to talk about is CALEDON HOCKLEY. Because even though he is a very simple character I also think he's a very interesting one. Because Caledon Hockley is destroyed by love. Or obsession. Or possession. It's hard to tell with him. They could have played him as just the greedy asshole in it for money, but he's not just that. He also appears to genuinely loves Rose, he just happens to be an absolute fucking asshole! He seeks to control every aspect of her life, because he loves her and is obsessed with her and wants to possess her, even when she is constantly rebelling against him.

Even after he has slapped her and she has told him she would rather be Jack's whore than Cal's wife he has his valet trying to find her and tries to make sure that she gets on a lifeboat. He even lies and says he'll get Jack on a lifeboat as well so long as Rose gets on one. And EVEN AFTER he tries to kill her for running off with Jack he goes looking for her after they are on the Carpathia. He might've been looking to get the diamond but with how melancholic he looks it seems more like he wanted to see she was alive. I think part of that is Billy Zane.

He says it himself, "There's nothing I'd deny you, if you would not deny me."

(Cal should take notes from the Goblin King's speech to Sarah in Labyrinth)

So he is an exploded Snake primary. As for his secondary, it would be easy to say Lion secondary. He is very violent, shooting at Rose and Jack (which he is very bad at), breaking things, and slapping Rose around. But that's when he's pissed. Throughout the movie the way he does things is much more subtle. He takes out Rose's cigarette and orders her food for her. He turns off the music box she was listening to. He pretends he has been robbed so he can from Jack for it. He gets his valet to do most of his dirty work and he bribes people with things. When his bribery has failed and he's separated from his valet he doesn't go in with punching people, he grabs the screaming Irish girl he saw earlier and says he has a child and has to be let on. He's a badger secondary. A dark one, but a badger.

So...

Rose Dewitt Bukater - Lion primary, Bird primary model that defines her life that she hates/Bird secondary

Jack Dawson - Badger primary/Snake secondary

Caledon Hockley - Exploded Snake primary/Badger secondary

[repetitionsings]

an exploded badger here who'd like to, you know.. find healthier ways to function. do you have any ideas?

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

I’m gonna run by this real fast on this one, but standard reminder that like unburning, unexploding almost always starts with getting yourself into a position where you’re safe enough to do so and working on what caused it. And in exploded Badger Primary especially, the chances are high that what’s around you contributed to that mindset.

But this seems to be more about looking for coping strategies or ways to help, not a full reversal. I’ll be honest, fighting the exploded bits of my Primary is something I’ve struggled with a lot -- even more than the burned parts, I think. I can offer some experience, and some conjecture, but it’s something that I’m still working out as well, so if anyone else who’s dealt with or is dealing with it has thoughts, I’d love to hear them added on.

Also I can offer a lot of sympathy and an open askbox, but that’s another story.

Some things that have done me good personally or that I believe would be helpful:

Note: Future-me popping back after the rest of the post to say that as a lot of this is from personal experience, some of it drifted into mental illness-adjacent topics and emotions that, for me, go strongly hand-in-hand with my exploded Badger. Nothing’s gone too deep into that area, but I thought it’d be good to shove in a head’s up for anyone who’s not up for that.

➢ Make friends that will nudge you to prioritize yourself. And if your exploding is largely focused on a community, having them be outside that community is helpful. My (Snake Primary) best friend is the greatest help in trying to head off an exploded Badger tailspin; she’s the one who will tell me that it’s okay if I don’t actually run myself ragged for everyone else, over and over again, when I need to be reminded. This is probably the #1 most helpful thing for me personally -- it’s so hard to hear past my own feelings that I should be doing more that it really takes the voice of someone else that I trust to give me that permission.

➢ Practice asking for help and setting boundaries in places where you can. If there’s any communities that manage not to hit that exploded Badger need in you as strongly -- maybe you’re more detached and not as invested in them, which is totally fine even if your primary sometimes argues about that --  or where what’s going on is unimportant enough that you can convince yourself it’s okay, try to practice there. My exploded Badger does not want me to say no or ask for assistance, even when it’s not a big deal; it’s easier to try to get used to it where it isn’t a big deal, before the important moments come around.

➢ This is not super helpful as a general statement, but without specifics it’s all I can say: try actively practicing and making time for self care. Since how that works is different for everyone, I can’t tell you how to deal with it, and god is it hard, but since so much of exploded Badger can be putting others over yourself, it’s also important to try and remember that you’re allowed to have things that will help you even if they’re not necessarily your active necessities. Time for you beyond obligations is important.

➢ A subset of the above, but work on giving yourself something that’s yours, specifically. I don’t know how universal this is but when my exploded Badger is at its loudest, I keep putting off thing I want to try -- hobbies, media, places to go, all of it -- because I’m waiting to not be doing it alone. Finally trying to get out of that mindset has felt weird and awkward and lonely at times, but has also done a lot of good already. Find solo projects and hobbies. Get into a show or a podcast no one else you know is into. Find a place that visually appeals to you and go on walks by yourself. It’s great to share things with people, it’s even fine if you share most things with people -- but try to get better at being okay with not sharing, too.

➢ This is another one that may or may not be a problem for you, but I also find when I get in that “do all things for others” place, it’s very easy for my opinions on anything, from the trivial to the important, to get easily steamrolled the second someone else speaks theirs, which I see as tied into that exploded Badger primary mindset. If that’s a problem for you: document how you think and feel about things. Publicly or privately. Babble into the abyss on tumblr as you watch a thing so that you don’t forget your opinion when someone else tells you theirs. Start a journal and write down your feelings on important issues before you find yourself ping-ponging around between others. Heck, start a journal and write down what foods you liked before you convince yourself you actually like something better the way someone else makes it. I’m not saying you’re writing these things in stone -- you are allowed to change your mind, there’s nothing wrong with that. But I find it hard to pull out of that urge to put other people first to the point where I feel like their opinions override mine. If you get that way too, writing it down, with reasons and details if you can, can at least help you see when you’re doing it and try to figure out whether your opinion is genuinely changing or you’d just shoved it aside.

➢ If the community you’re currently in isn’t entirely toxic, which is a different story altogether, remind yourself of things you love about your communities. That may sound counter-intuitive, but it’s a form of individualism -- trying to reshape the thought from “I’m here because I’m useful” to “I’m here because I like it”, and hopefully even “I’m here because I get this out of it”. It’s a way to remind yourself that it’s not supposed to be all one-sided. Also, I find that the exploded Badger mindset can sour me on places I do genuinely love when that isn’t ruling my brain, so it’s a way to try and pull out of that downslide.

➢ On the flip side, another possibility: take a break from your communities now and then to try and reset yourself. This obviously only works in some communities, and also only in ones that aren’t trying to push your exploded Badger, just ones where you find yourself exploding at them nonetheless. And mileage may vary depending on other things -- I actually try not to do this because my combo of executive dysfunction and anxiety means if I get out of the habit of keeping up with a community, it’s extremely difficult for me to jump back in. But if you don’t struggle with that, stepping back may help, both to disentangle yourself from that mindset and so that you can come back and see that they’ll be okay even if you’re not doing everything. Don’t isolate yourself completely, but if you find yourself getting deeply into exploded primary patterns in an area, it’s worth a try.

➢ Celebrate small victories. I’m sort of stealing this from this addition to my earlier unburning post, but it’s good advice in this situation, too. This stuff is hard. Even if you’re just trying to compensate or lessen the shouting and not fully reverse it right now, it’s hard. When you manage it, celebrate it. And if you can celebrate it with others who will encourage it, even better, for Badger in particular.

[garsideofthemoon]

How can you tell the difference between a Lion primary with exploded Badger values, a Lion modeling exploded Badger primary, and a exploded Badger secondary. I know someone who I'm 90% sure is a Lion Badger but they view serving other people as the highest form of goodness and will overwork themselves because they view themselves as a resource.

For context @wisteria-lodge has asked members of the SHC community to help with answering asks. I am a lion primary with a badger model and a bird secondary with a badger model.

This is the million dollar question anon! It's very hard to differentiate a lion with badger values from a badger primary! And as a lion with badger values I will say that I sometimes react to situations the way a badger primary would. I think the key way to differentiate is why they believe serving other people is the highest form of goodness. Does this belief stem from their community (eg I get a lot of joy/comfort in serving the people in [insert community here]) or does it stem from an ideal (for example, my badger-like beliefs stem from the concept of dharma and duty to other people). Is the act itself what drives your friend to serve other people, or are they driven by abstract concepts related to service like duty or morality? From the way you have phrased this ask I'm guessing it's the latter (lion modeling exploded badger)

As for the secondary part what you're describing definitely sounds like exploded badger secondary or an exploded badger model.

So in conclusion your friend is probably a lion primary modeling exploded badger and an exploded badger secondary

[mooglesorts]

man. it's weird, because there's a lot of things about me that are Very Badger Primary, to the point where i would probably pick it with a strong bird model over anything else at this point... except that i hate dehumanization. i saw primaries described recently as 'things you wouldn't be you anymore if you went against,' and more than just about anything else that's it. even when i think people are monsters, i can't see them as not human; i'd be hard put to define exactly what i consider a 'monster,' but it's more about like. good faith than personhood, i suppose?

it's not necessarily a permanent status to be one--people can change--but my deeply held instinct is that once you have done something monstrous you will always be a person who has been a monster by your own choices, and that it's your duty to learn how to accept that while still living your life, and act accordingly from thereon out. you have to reconcile that you are a person with the fact that some doors are closed to you now, and it's up to you to decide what you do from there.

just. like. even when i hate someone and as far as i'm concerned they can go fuck themself, even in the multiple Heavily Badger social environments i've been in over the course of my life--church, progressive circles, the way the structure of the internet kind of just affects you in general--even on occasions where i've gotten swept away and given in to the pressure to dehumanize (or perform it) for a minute, there's always, always been a voice in the back of my head saying this is a person. this is a person. this is a person. this isn't right.

unintentional dehumanization sets off my '...should we really be doing this? we are getting into not good territory here, it's time to pull up and start questioning' alarms. explicit, intentional, purposeful dehumanization sets off the whole ass tornado sirens. if people on my side are doing it it's enough to throw me into a system-destabilizing crisis, because NO NO NO I WANT TO GET OFF THIS RIDE, I WANT NO PART OF THESE PEOPLE'S MORAL SYSTEM, I FEEL UNCLEAN. it's a good way to make sure i will never, ever, ever trust someone again.

things that are Really Really Badger, off the top of my head (after the cut because Long and trauma talk):

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-i've always loved playing adoptable games, pet simulators, etc? any game with randomly generated characters that are Yours Now and a Community, in a deeply badgery way. including games where they can die (the satisfying part is making sure they don't). except that, no matter how much fun the gameplay is, if it gets to the point where they start feeling disposable, and the only way to really keep playing is to stop humanizing them, i lose interest. it's super fucking depressing. it feels like part of me dying inside a little. i don't like it at all.

-i've always been drawn to fandoms and roleplaying communities. i was fiercely loyal to, and proud of, my first rp community on dragoncave as a 13-year-old. when my abusive mom found out about it and completely isolated me for half a year, the promise of being able to make it back to them--just sneakier this time--kept me going; when i finally got back and the group had drifted apart in my absence, it.... was absolutely devastating. i never really recovered from it. even then, i spent years trying to get the group back together every now and then, until i finally gave up.

-i am always keenly, painfully aware of the life cycle of a community. every time i hear the sentiment 'you guys are all great and i love this group' my stomach drops, because i know it's only a matter of time before things go sour or the group dissolves. rp groups, skype chats/discord servers, fandoms, you name it, i am always bracing myself or staying away entirely to avoid the inevitable and it hurts. and it hurts to see people taking part in a community i don't dare be part of, which makes lurking in fandoms... really rough. frankly, it takes me a lot of courage every time i express my appreciation for the shc community because i've been burned so many times.

-on that note: i went through some really traumatic stuff at the end of 2020 that completely turned my life upside down, and i was doing bad until i stumbled across the shc community. the moment i started engaging, it was a huge boost to my mental health, and my ability to cope with circumstances under which i was about to break down spectacularly. and it has been ever since! contributing to The Group Project and seeing other folks being friendly with each other gives me the happy feelings.

-i used to go out of my way to build and run spaces, mainly fandom and rp spaces, and took a lot of pride in engineering them so that they Functioned Well. unfortunately it wore me the hell down over the years for Burnt Badger Reasons, and now i'm too jaded, bitter, and exhausted to give a shit about being a mod/community leader anymore because of it lmao

-among those burnt badger things i relate HARD to the Red Ledger narrative. hoo boy.

-i wish i could find it again, but there was an mlp comic i saw once which went into luna's observations of what each element of harmony Means. with the element of friendship, she says that twilight has a massive amount of love to give; right now it's all focused on celestia, but when she learns to expand it outward she'll have grown into her full potential as a person, and she'll change the world. that struck a chord with how i used to feel, hard, and it's really stuck with me ever since. (hello, unhealthy snake model)

-emphasis on 'used to feel,' lmao

-got super invested in a really toxic '''mental health''' community at a low point in my life; exploded HARD trying to help everyone i could; got into vicious, protracted fights with the shitty mods for years about the harmful way they ran their community until i finally managed to go 'fuck this it's not getting better' and leave.

-had to numb myself emotionally to the people around me for a long time once i really started learning about mental health and trauma stuff, because now i was seeing signs of their pain and baggage everywhere i looked, and i couldn't handle not being able to help.

-the imagery with which i think about my bird primary is overwhelmingly negative. whether it's my actual primary or a model, i uh. i feel like a healthy relationship to one's primary doesn't involve associating it with gore.

-i saw a conversation recently about how birds think of morality in terms of 'if you can, you should,' and how that's scary for badgers because their definition of 'can' involves destroying yourself for the sake of that 'should,' and... yeah, that's a mood. that's a BIG mood. thinking about bird primary stuff is hard--and i had to pick up my lion model to deal with it--because it's so easy for me to spiral into a self-shredding spiral of other people are counting on you to do the right thing, how dare you pull back for your own health and sanity. how dare you turn your back for even a minute. how dare you rest. the work is never done.

which is... a very exploded badger approach to exploded bird morality. whoops.

-fix-it and time travel fiction in which Everything Went Right This Time and It's Going to Be Okay are one of my very favorite self-indulgent fantasies. i will enjoy putting characters through the wringer in all kinds of creatively horrific ways which may or may not end on a downer note, certainly, i love that shit, but i will also 90% of the time have a backup version of the arc or dynamic that's softer and lighter and Actually Healthy This Time. it's the dichotomy there that really gets me tbh, a story where Everything Ends Happily by default will mmmaybe pull me in? but stories where there's the constant shadow of this could end horribly, it's supposed to end horribly, and we got a happy fucking ending anyway are just... that shit will make me cry, man.

it's also why i kind of really hate stable time loop stories where it initially looks like this is going to be The Good Timeline this time around, but OOPSIE everything went to shit anyway! we're right back where we started, just like it was meant to be all along! it's a tired cliche by this point and an unsatisfying one for me, and it makes me roll my eyes every time.

-this is relevant to the bird vs. badger because like... my gut instinct is to prioritize people over systems. when shit hits the fan, when someone's fallen into the machinery and is about to get hurt, i don't feel right about it if i just let it happen. i'll break the machinery if i have to to keep it away from them; i won't feel great about that, and it might cause problems, but fuck it, we'll figure it out later. throwing people into the gears of a system when i'm convinced it's the only option makes me feel Awful.

-related to the above, another trope that really speaks to me in fiction is when a character defies the rules of reality through sheer force of will. no, this is not happening, i don't give a shit what the limits are supposed to be. i refuse to let this be the way things are. (there's that lion model.)

-i've just kind of... always wanted to be an Everyone Badger. it makes me sad how much of that i've lost over the years as i've gotten more cynical, but it's what i wish i could be.

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doubtless i'll think of more the moment i hit send, and there are just as many things about me that are Super Bird Primary, but like... mamma mia that's some spicy badger. the main thing stopping me is the Can't and Refuse to Dehumanize bit. i also... hm. i think i can function okay without a community? they just help a lot, and it sucks when i'm confronted with one i don't have a (stable) place in. any thoughts? is it possible for a bird system's foundation to run so deep that eventually it overrides the bird?